Hunting Rifle Excalibur...

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Garandimal

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.270 Winchester/150 gr.


129-f270fs2.jpg

The perfect hunting cartridge for North America.


If you take the American Legend 150 gr. M2 Ball .30-06 round, with its ~ 2,800 FPS Muzzle Velocity, and...
- Increase the Sectional Density of the Bullet to that of the mighty 180 gr. .30-06 round.
- Increase the Ballistic Coefficient of the Bullet to that of the mighty 180 gr. .30-06 round.
- Yet maintain the same Velocity, Rifle Weight, and Recoil as the .30-06/150 gr..

And accomplish this by:
- Reducing the Bullet Diameter from .308 to .277.
- Increasing the Chamber Pressure from 60,000 to 65,000 PSI.
- Maintaining essentially the same Belt-less Case and Dimensions.

...you have Excalibur - the .270 WCF/150 gr..



The .270 Winchester was initially designed as a 130 gr. High-Velocity, flat shooting cartridge in the mid-1920's(1925) - when Rifle Scopes were rare and expensive, and most rifles used "iron" buckhorn or Aperture sights.

270-130gr-Partition-bullet-info.jpg

Range-Finders, like Chronographs, were the realm of the Federal Government, so a high(er)-velocity round meant that one could hold on a target out to a longer distance before the bullet dropped away, known as Mean Point Blank Range(MPBR) - without using a "Kentucky Elevation" hold-over to compensate.

The down side is, the 130 gr. load tends to be destructive to edible meat at the normal, closer ranges that game is generally taken.

In an attempt to reduce meat destruction - heavier, 150 gr. Round Nosed bullets were tried, at a somewhat reduced velocity.

129-270b.jpg

But, while less destructive, they are also less effective on game beyond "woods" ranges, due to the lower energy and increased drop.


Heavier, 150 gr. bullets, but of pointed "Spitzer" design, are a different story.

They have increased Ballistic Coefficients(BC), (the ability of a bullet to resist both Air Drag and Wind Drift), substantially greater than those of the 130 gr. bullets.

270-150gr-Partition-bullet-info.jpg

And the additional weight also increases the Sectional Density(SD) of the bullet, (its Mass/Area ratio), that generally determines how well any given bullet design will penetrate game.

So, generally, 150 gr. .277 Spitzer bullets have the same External(flight) and Terminal(strike) Ballistic characteristics as the tried and true (and heavier recoiling) 180 gr. .30-06.

30cal-180gr-Partition-bullet-info.jpg

And Slow Burn Rate Powders can push them along pretty well.

As more powder can be added, the heavy for caliber .277 bullets can be pushed at peak/high pressure for a longer period of time - resulting in increased velocity.


DU48318.jpg


And while this produces "hyper" velocities in the 130 gr. cartridge that can cause meat destruction at "typical" hunting ranges (without careful attention to bullet selection) - the 150 gr. loads simply speed up to that of the 150 gr. .30-06!

The 150 gr. sptizer .270 WCF has the same Muzzle Energy and Terminal Energy down range as the 130 gr. loading... but does it with a Heavier, Higher SD(density) bullet that penetrates better, yet is generally not explosive to edible meat at closer ranges.

Excalibur!

Shoots like a 150 gr. .30-06... Hits and Penetrates like a 180 gr. .30-06.

...all in a < 8.5 lb./22" Bbl'ed scoped rifle, under the accepted 20 ft-lb of recoil threshold that is comfortable to shoot, (for all but the most sensitive shooters), ... all day long.

WP-20190419-15-09-30-Pro-50-crop-R.jpg
Which means - it can be mastered easily on the range, so that "flinch" free precision in the hunting fields can be attained.

... meat in the freezer.




GR
 
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Thank you for sharing this knowledge. It saved me from burning through a couple boxes of ammo. I have a model 70 in .270 and was wondering what bullet weight I should get for it. I'm not a hunter but hey its 2020 so what better time to start. I am definitely going to try 150 gr. first.
 
I'd argue the 280AI would be mo'betta, but there's certainly no stink on the 270WCF.

The 280AI is the same cheap easy to source case, but blown out for more capacity and better geometry for longer life.

Bullets of the same weight/SD/BC avaliable at the same or higher velocities as well as heavy for caliber bullets the 270 just can't hang with.
 
My wife's sibs all shoot .270s, as do a fair number folks I know. I've tried them a time or two myself, and can agree that there isn't much you can't do with a 150gr .277 partition at 2800.
That said, is there any real difference between a 150gr .277 partition at 2800, a 140gr partition launched from a 6.5mm at 2800, a 160 .284 partition at 2800, or a 180gr partition launched at 2800 from a .30-06?

Pretty much all middle of the road critter gitters, none of which are poor choices.
 
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My .270 seems to LOVE the 130, likes the 140, and tolerates the 150.

But it’s still accurate enough with all three for hunting so I can tailor a load to the anticipated quarry and/or range.:thumbup:

I’m of the opinion that variety is the spice of life. There are so many great cartridges, loads and rifles I would be remiss if I limited myself to only one of each. :)

Stay safe.
 
I won't argue that 270 isn't better than 30-06, at least on paper, but you're splitting some mighty fine hairs. For one thing you're using 30-06 loads from the 1940's, not 2020. It ain't hard to get 3050-3100 fps from 30-06 with 150's, 3000 fps with 165's and 2850 with 180's. Even with a 22" barrel.

In the 1920's when 270 was introduced it was a very different round than 30-06. But with todays loads there isn't enough difference between the 2 to make any difference. What one will kill the other will kill. And trajectory with the best loads are going to be within a fraction of 1 MOA.

That said, is there any real difference between a 150gr .277 partition at 2800, a 140gr partition launched from a 6.5mm at 2800, a 160 .284 partition at 2800, or a 180gr partition launched at 2800 from a .30-06?

No game animal will ever know the difference. But when it comes to punching paper the 270 comes in 4th place due to the lack of high BC bullets and barrels to shoot them.
 
My wife's sibs all shoot .270s, as do a fair number folks I know. I've tried them a time or two myself, and can agree that there isn't much you can't do with a 150gr .277 partition at 2800.
That said, is there any real difference between a 150gr .277 partition at 2800, a 140gr partition launched from a 6.5mm at 2800, a 160 .284 partition at 2800, or a 180gr partition launched at 2800 from a .30-06?

Pretty much all middle of the road critter gitters, none of which are poor choices.

Agree.

But would consider the .277/150 gr. and .284/160 gr. ballistic twins... and the 6.5/140 gr. a little brother that punches above his weight.

:D


The .30/180 gr. at 2800, however... pushes the recoil out of the < 20 ft-lb envelope.

Other than that?

Gold Standard round.




GR
 
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I won't argue that 270 isn't better than 30-06, at least on paper, but you're splitting some mighty fine hairs. For one thing you're using 30-06 loads from the 1940's, not 2020. It ain't hard to get 3050-3100 fps from 30-06 with 150's, 3000 fps with 165's and 2850 with 180's. Even with a 22" barrel.

In the 1920's when 270 was introduced it was a very different round than 30-06. But with todays loads there isn't enough difference between the 2 to make any difference. What one will kill the other will kill. And trajectory with the best loads are going to be within a fraction of 1 MOA.



No game animal will ever know the difference. But when it comes to punching paper the 270 comes in 4th place due to the lack of high BC bullets and barrels to shoot them.

What you are not taking into consideration - is recoil - one of the Excalibur criteria.

You can push the .270/150 gr. beyond 2900 fps... but to what advantage?

Recoil also increases - beyond 20 ft-lbs - and into the .30-06/180 gr. range.


So your argument is obfuscation.




GR
 
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I completely agree. If someone came out with a magnum cartridge with a long throat that could push a 200 grain .277 caliber spitzer to 3,000 fps and a barrel with a fast twist rate I would be in heaven. (Yes I know, no reason for it but I don't care.)
subsonic-comparison2.jpg 115 grain .277 on left, 200 grain .277 on right.
 
I completely agree. If someone came out with a magnum cartridge with a long throat that could push a 200 grain .277 caliber spitzer to 3,000 fps and a barrel with a fast twist rate I would be in heaven. (Yes I know, no reason for it but I don't care.)
View attachment 952853 115 grain .277 on left, 200 grain .277 on right.

Gott im Himmel.

The 1:8.5 twist 27 Nosler - will push the 165 gr. Accubomb LR to > 3200 fps...


But the .270 WCF/150 gr. seems to run out of steam... about the same time I do.

:D




GR
 
Speaking of which, does anyone have any further news on the .277 Fury? 270 Win + performance from a 16" barrel seems quite interesting. AFAIK, only chambered in the Sig Cross rifle so far? And has there been any further news about reloadability?
 
For those interested in long projectile .277s, they are becoming available, and more companies are offering fast twist .277 barrels.

IMO there's little or nothing special about a bore dia (outside of available factory options), but for those who just wanna be different, a fast twist .277 would pretty unique still.

If Shaw had gotten the tooling in (and the barrel had shown up in time), I'd have had the .270win barrel for my SILs rifle twisted 1-8.5 specifically to shot the 165ablrs. As is I stuck a Ruger barrel onnher Winchester, and now have a spare .270win 1-10 barrel to mess with.
 
The Minivan

View attachment 952834

The perfect vehicle for transportation in North America

(and the perfect analogy to the .270 win :p )

Dodge_Grand_Caravan-US-car-sales-statistics.png

- Annual Sales Figures -

2019: 122,648
2018: 151,927
2017: 125,196
2016: 125,275
2015: 097,141
2014: 134,152
2013: 124,019
2012: 141,468
2011: 110,862
2010: 103,323
2009: 090,666
2008: 123,749
2007: 176,150
2006: 211,140
2005: 226,771
2004: 242,307
2003: 233,394
2002: 244,911
2001: 242,036
2000: 285,739
1999: 293,100
1998: 293,819
1997: 300,000
1996: 300,117
1995: 267,060
1994: 268,013
1993: 281,521
1992: 251,921
1991: 216,510
1990: 205,956
1989: 219,576
1988: 230,140
1987: 167,042
1986: 130,551
1985: 136,335
6,874,535... satisfied hunters.
:D



GR
 
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The only way to do 270 Winchester is in a Pre-64 Winchester Model 70. Both the gun and the cartridge have nice lovely proportions, like a beautiful lady. :)

That said I normally hunt with ugly trolls, short and fat, 450 Bushmaster, 300 BO, and 30 Remington AR. :D
 
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I'm in love, you had me at 165 gr. and a 4 number figure that starts with 3 and is followed by fps.

Take a look at the .270wby also, burns 20gr less powder to get within about 100fps of the .27 Nosler.

Imo a shortened .300prc/375 Ruger case (to get a 3.3-.4, coal to fit in standard actions) would be about ideal for either a .277 or .284 bore. Again IMO I think 70ish grains of powder is about where you start seeing enough fall of in efficiency to start heming and hawing.
The slightly wider Ruger case would effectively "creedmoor" the .270wby.
 
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