Hunting Rifle Excalibur...

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Skylerbone said:
Golly my 15 year old daughter is already shooting 50cal muzzleloader with a 250gr bullet over 150gr of Pyrodex. If 30-06 or 7mm mag is too much recoil, then modify the rifle, don’t chose a poor chambering. Next outing she’ll be firing the 300win mag and smiling about it.

Ive always found the magic bullet to be the one that fits in the rifle appropriately chambered for the size critter I’m hunting.
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For all too many... it's shooting and missing.

Hits count.
Good hits count more.
Bigger hits count more.

Any ole idiot can pull a trigger.

But can you hit with precision, from field positions, with a bullet that will fly flat enough to hit, hit hard enough to kill quickly, and penetrate deep enough to break heavy bone and exit?

That is what the .270 WCF/150 gr., along with the 6.5/140 gr. and .280/160 gr.... at ~ 2800 fps MV, will do.

What it can't do... or what you can do other than that...?

... Isn't really germane.




GR
 
Running joke on another forum, about the .270.
Ive shot a couple, never owned one.
My hunting bud has a Parker Hale in .270 and in our thicket 75 yards is about it.
He runs 150s.
Think it's a bit much.
 
Personally if going long action.............I'd skip the .270 win.
Get a .25-06 and a 7 mm Rem mag

That was my plan until I found a cool .280 rem.
Due to some collector value it wont get the AI treatment.

Also don't understand how folks can't shoot. Its all just shooting with non slammers, . 22rf to 7mm mag (AFAIC).
 
Garandimal said:
But can you hit with precision, from field positions, with a bullet that will fly flat enough to hit, hit hard enough to kill quickly, and penetrate deep enough to break heavy bone and exit?

That is what the .270 WCF/150 gr., along with the 6.5/140 gr. and .280/160 gr.... at ~ 2800 fps MV, will do.


What it can't do... or what you can do other than that...?

... Isn't really germane.
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So...if I use the “magic bullet” I’m a shooter, capable of good/bigger hits than with rifles shooting non-magic bullets??? I don’t see how any specific caliber is capable beyond any other that offers high bc bullets with good sectional density and a little velocity. Creating boundaries around your personal choice over and over and over and over again is silliness.

If someone can shoot well, and assuming they do hunt, then I stand with my assertion that they choose the rifle that fits in a suitable caliber for the game they hunt. Leave magic to magicians, it’s fake anyway.
 
Skylerbone said:
So...if I use the “magic bullet” I’m a shooter, capable of good/bigger hits than with rifles shooting non-magic bullets??? I don’t see how any specific caliber is capable beyond any other that offers high bc bullets with good sectional density and a little velocity. Creating boundaries around your personal choice over and over and over and over again is silliness.

If someone can shoot well, and assuming they do hunt, then I stand with my assertion that they choose the rifle that fits in a suitable caliber for the game they hunt. Leave magic to magicians, it’s fake anyway.
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It's about checking the boxes, S.

- Terminal Performance spectrum.
- External Performance.
- Recoil.

"Magic"...?

You seem to want to make this an emotional argument.


The .270 WCF/150 gr. - checks all the boxes for NA big game hunting.

...and does it as well as some, and a little better than most.


Precision, for me, and a lot of honest hunters I know, ends with the .30-06/180 gr.

Great cartridge - but I can't shoot it with precision near as well as the 150 gr., .270 WCF or .30 Springfield.

Why do you think, sans Marketing Hype, that the 6.5 CM has become so wildly popular as a hunting round?

A. it's not a 180 gr. .30-06 - but acts kinda like one, with ~ 1/3 less recoil, as does it's Progenitor, the 6.5x55.


And you know what?

Lots of hunters can shoot the .270 WCF/150 gr., with a little practice, just as well.

And get a boost in energy and authority at the closer ranges - for the bigger critters that can appreciate it.

The 130-140 gr. copper rounds fall into this category as well.


They are an elegant class of cartridges for the bulk of NA big game hunting, and not necessarily the common/traditional loading.

My opinion is that the .270 WCF/150 gr. is apex.


If you can shoot a .300 WM/200 gr., with precision, all day long...?

Great!

Not magic.

:D




GR
 
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Hog huntin Harry said:
We need some more Jack O'Connor talk in this thread. A .270 Winchester thread with no Jack is like toast with no preserves.
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Ole Jack wasn't just a great hunter... but a great communicator as well.

Growin' up as a hunter - this was literally my bible:

41gIBUxCY2L._SX332_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg
​
The only caveat w/ ole Jack, was that his "pitch" was for the "iron" sighted rifle... which favored the 130 gr. bullet.




GR
 
Garandimal said:
Ole Jack wasn't just a great hunter... but a great communicator as well.

Growin' up as a hunter - this was literally my bible:

The only caveat w/ ole Jack, was that his "pitch" was for the "iron" sighted rifle... which favored the 130 gr. bullet.




GR
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Absolutely, I purchased a 1970 Winchester Press hardcover copy of "The Hunting Rifle" about 2 weeks ago, and a 1997 updated hardcover copy of "The Art of Hunting Big Game in North American" last month. Undoubtedly they are the best purchases in literature I've ever made along with "Game Loads And Practical Ballistics For The American Hunter" by Bob Hagel.
 
Hog huntin Harry said:
Absolutely, I purchased a 1970 Winchester Press hardcover copy of "The Hunting Rifle" about 2 weeks ago, and a 1997 updated hardcover copy of "The Art of Hunting Big Game in North American" last month. Undoubtedly they are the best purchases in literature I've ever made along with "Game Loads And Practical Ballistics For The American Hunter" by Bob Hagel.
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I need to find a hardcover copy.

Mine's the paperback version... and looks like a hymn book that has been in continuous use since the Renaissance.

:D


P.S. Will look into your other noted titles, thanks.




GR
 
Garandimal said:
"Magic"...?

You seem to want to make this an emotional argument.
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“Excalibur”: magic sword. Nope. It is not I who brings emotion. Why do so many 12ga shotguns have such a large butt plate? Recoil dispersion. The very reason an 8oz. ice pick can skewer you but a heavier fist attached to an arm does not.

Your entire focus is on 1 bullet and 1 caliber, and zero other technology. Ignoring other advances smacks of picking favorites, yours having been made abundantly clear by now. I’m not arguing against .270 as a viable choice but Excalibur?!? Nah. With a dozen or more great options available Jackie O’s is no stand out.

Read what I wrote; set the gun up correctly and the felt recoil is more than manageable. Can I shoot 300 win mag all day comfortably? From my rifle, yes I can. The right recoil pad, the right rifle; till the sun goes down. Same with 30-06 180s. I don’t know how to post videos, thus the screen caps instead, but the question grandpa asked was “did it break your shoulder” and the reply “no, it wasn’t that bad”. Then she proceeded to reload and pick a new target.
 
Skylerbone said:
“Excalibur”: magic sword. Nope. It is not I who brings emotion...

Your entire focus is on 1 bullet and 1 caliber, and zero other technology...
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Gee, S...

... your hysterical attack has apparently rendered you myopic as well.

Garandimal said:
Agree.

But would consider the .277/150 gr. and .284/160 gr. ballistic twins... and the 6.5/140 gr. a little brother that punches above his weight.

The .30/180 gr. at 2800, however... pushes the recoil out of the < 20 ft-lb envelope.

Other than that?

Gold Standard round.
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Garandimal said:
...

...But can you hit with precision, from field positions, with a bullet that will fly flat enough to hit, hit hard enough to kill quickly, and penetrate deep enough to break heavy bone and exit?

That is what the .270 WCF/150 gr., along with the 6.5/140 gr. and .280/160 gr.... at ~ 2800 fps MV, will do.

...
Click to expand...

Garandimal said:
Precision, for me, and a lot of honest hunters I know, ends with the .30-06/180 gr.

Great cartridge - but I can't shoot it with precision near as well as the 150 gr., .270 WCF or .30 Springfield.

They are an elegant class of cartridges for the bulk of NA big game hunting, and not necessarily the common/traditional loading.

My opinion is that the .270 WCF/150 gr. is apex.

...
Click to expand...

Just wanted to point out the elegance of my favorite, out of a class of cartridges, uncommon and often maligned heavy for caliber std. length cartridge.

... not write a doctoral thesis on cartridges that make everybody feel good.


So, take it easy.

Suggest deep breathing exercises, and a range trip.

:D




GR
 
I like shooting my 300, but like @Skylerbone said, it's set up for me, and to mitigate the recoil/be easy to shoot.....heck, he helped me set it up by giving me an on/off brake. It also weights something like 12lbs, and I just fitted an old Remington limbsavers pad to it.
PXL_20201020_064718962.jpg

My last one was a really pretty and nice shooting Ruger Hawkeye, unfortunately it only really shot well with absolute top end loads, and really preferred 208gr Amax. Thing was brutal.....
IMG_20160902_204010182.jpg
The one before that was a Savage 110 with a bunch of tinkering and a kickeez pad. It weighed 7.5lbs otd, but since it fit and had a squishy pad it was comfortable. It shot 165s at 3300fps just fine.....no pictures of that one.


Ive seen enough stuff hit with the .300 to acknowledge difference in performance, especially with marginal, or straight up bad hits.
I'm willing to say that the .300 can and will do things a .270 or even a .30-06 can't, and in a meaningful way, but you have to pay the piper.
 
LoonWulf said:
...I'm willing to say that the .300 can and will do things a .270 or even a .30-06 can't, and in a meaningful way, but you have to pay the piper.
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As does my 9.3x62/286 gr..

WP-20190702-13-33-24-Pro-50-crop.jpg ​

... that takes monk-like focus for me, just to keep it on the paper.
(and that being' an elegant solution to the .375 Ruger)

:D




GR
 
Oh again I’m not worked up and my viewpoint is fine. Not once have I attacked your choice or you, only your poor choice of words that ascribe mythical hoohaw to your choice. A few months back you were maligning the 6.5s as anemic. Carry on with the parade if you must (and you always must) and I’ll find better ways to waste words.
 
Skylerbone said:
Oh again I’m not worked up and my viewpoint is fine. Not once have I attacked your choice or you, only your poor choice of words that ascribe mythical hoohaw to your choice. A few months back you were maligning the 6.5s as anemic. Carry on with the parade if you must (and you always must) and I’ll find better ways to waste words.
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And rightly so.

If one shot the .270 WCF as precisely as the 6.5mm, wouldn't one be wise to use it in the field, especially at the ranges that exemplify its advantages?

I would take it in a walk.

And I have a 6.5x55.

It is not my apex hunting cartridge.


But don't take my word for it...

ballisticstudies.com - 6.5x55

Performance
The 6.5x55 has generated a huge amount of interest throughout the world since the influx of surplus military rifles became available on international markets. Articles relating to the Swede appear in every gun magazine yet there is still a lot of misinformation over the performance of the 6.5x55 on game. Authorities state that the Swede is useful for all game up to the size of Moose with its long for caliber bullets giving deep penetration. Comments have also been made that beyond 200 yards the Swede ballistically out performs the .270 while giving less recoil. In truth, the Swede is a rather modest performer. With factory ammunition, performance is generally in the same class as the .30-30. Wounding is slightly narrower than the .30-30 but penetration is usually deeper....

The 140 grain bullet is the most versatile bullet weight in the Swede. Hand loaded to between 2750 and 2800fps, this combination produces the best balance of wounding versus penetration. Nevertheless, regardless of high BC’s and SD’s, the Swede can be a slow killer at ranges beyond 200 yards. Conventional projectiles, regardless of SD, often fail to produce deep penetration. The 6.5x55 is simply not in the same class as the .270 which it is often compared to, regardless of hype...


Mine is set up w/ 140 gr. and an aperture sight - for 200 yd. field shooting.

Great rifle/cartridge combo.




GR
 
Garandimal said:
The 140 grain bullet is the most versatile bullet weight in the Swede. Hand loaded to between 2750 and 2800fps, this combination produces the best balance of wounding versus penetration. Nevertheless, regardless of high BC’s and SD’s, the Swede can be a slow killer at ranges beyond 200 yards. Conventional projectiles, regardless of SD, often fail to produce deep penetration. The 6.5x55 is simply not in the same class as the .270 which it is often compared to, regardless of hype...
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What animals are they talking about, and what are they calling deep penetration? I may have missed it, as I only skimmed the article.

While I'm a firm believer that there's no replacement for displacement, and the .270 has about 10gr more capacity, I really can't see a difference in performance between a 140+ 6.5mm bullet, and 150gr .277 bullet if both are the same design, at the same or similar speeds.

Again, I've seen both used on animals upto 600-800ish lbs for the 6.5 (6.5x284) and 1000lbs with the .270s. I've also seen a .243 heart shoot the same animals using a sierra 100gr spritzer.
The only one that had any penetration issues was the 6.5, but a 143eld-x impacting around 2800fps is a little much, and it still dropped that bull within 30-40yds. I doubt there would have been much difference with a 145 .277 eld-x hitting at 2800.

Now step all the way up to a 208-215gr .308 at 2800 or so, and there's a noticeable difference in damage at least.
 
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Garandimal said:
As does my 9.3x62/286 gr..


... that takes monk-like focus for me, just to keep it on the paper.
(and that being' an elegant solution to the .375 Ruger)

:D




GR
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I know I sound like a broken record, but try a kickeez or other squishy pad. It really makes a huge difference in terms of sharp pain vs good hard shove.

Those Ruger stocks and hard pads are pretty brutal in the heavier kicking chamberings. A little rounding out of the energy transfer, and some reduction goes a long way to making them not just manageable, but pleasant.
 
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