Good put.
Now. that's something that can be avoided.
"If I'm going into a bad area..."
- Thread starter RetiredUSNChief
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Old Dog
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Old Dog said:
Or just were craving some of the best barbeque in the state, and guess where it was?
Or just were craving some of the best barbeque in the state, and guess where it was?
Ah, not if you're a fan of good barbeque...
Hangingrock
Member
I do not knowingly frequent bad areas. It is a simplistic life style that works for me.
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RetiredUSNChief
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Beats me where you get this feeling. I think you're reading this into my posting for your own reasons, because this isn't the perspective I'm writing from.
I'm indeed retired...from the Navy at age 41 and currently 18 years into my second career. I've also raised several children, still raising if you consider our youngest is in her senior year at college. Even so, I've been in EXACTLY the kinds of circumstances you specifically cited and yet I still had choices in the matter.
I'm not going to directly reference the thread that I alluded to in opening comment of my original posting because only the generalities of the topic apply and I'm not about to contribute to derailing another thread or possibly starting a flame war there. This can be a sensitive topic under some circumstances and I chose to deal with it entirely separately.
In that thread were several postings revolving around "If I'm going into a bad area (I'm going to carry X gun/I'm going to wear X body armor/etc.)". The comments were entirely speculative in nature without regards to any considerations as to such things as whether or not they had a choice in the matter of being in that area or other mitigating circumstances. The solutions I'm talking about in that thread revolved more around arming up than figuring out ways to mitigate risks in the first place.
And THAT is what this thread is about.
It doesn't matter who you are, you DO have choices. Even not making a choice is a choice. And all those choices have risks associated with them. Failure to properly assess those risks and make choices which places those risks at levels which are acceptable compared to other risks we accept in life is both poor planning and poor defensive behavior.
You use the example of the timing of a trip to Walmart or a grocery store. I would assess the risks of going to a particular Walmart or grocery store and any hour of the day to be perfectly acceptable for some locations. However, there are some Walmarts and grocery stores I would assess differently. Likewise, there are alternative choices to these places that may be viable in lieu of them.
And even if the places you cite AREN'T the best places to be at a given time, there are OTHER choices you can make which would affect the amount of risk you would assume. Can you call ahead or use an app to have the stuff you want gotten together for curbside delivery? Are there other people who might be able to make the trip with you? Just realistically assessing the risks and adjusting your own behavior/alertness is an excellent choice.
"When all you have is a hammer, everything starts to look like a nail" comes to mind. (Or however that quote is actually worded.) Though what to carry IS important, it's only a portion of what makes for effective self-defense. It's there as ONE TOOL to help you survive a violent encounter. However, except in a very limited number of circumstances, we have other self-defense tools available to us which serve to help avoid potentially violent encounters or mitigate them if they happen. It is absolutely essential that we recognize this and bring ALL of those other resources into play.
"If I'm going into a bad area..." implies one has an awareness that they are ACTUALLY headed, or considering heading, into a "bad area". That means they have enough time to ask that other important question I mentioned: "Why are you going into a bad area in the first place?"
The answers to that question should tell you a lot about how you should assess and mitigate the risks involved.
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RetiredUSNChief
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It is also useless for those who fail to recognize an area they're going to is a "bad area".
But my posting wasn't about "don't go there", it was about assessing WHY you feel you need to go there in the first place. If you've recognized where you're headed to is a "bad area" (by whatever definition one may have), a realistic assessment of the risks and mitigations are called for BEFOREHAND.
That doesn't mean "don't got there", it means you've considered WHY you feel the need and have made adjustments appropriate for it. MAYBE part of that assessment will be to go elsewhere instead. MAYBE part of that assessment will be to change the time you go there. MAYBE it'll just be something that you will continue to accept the risks involved as-is without changing anything at all.
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RetiredUSNChief
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I didn't want to cite specifics when I started this thread because I didn't want to potentially post details on another thread.
Suffice it to say that "significant number" can vary in definition based on perspective. In this case, it involved one thread in particular, but I've seen other threads "here and there" over time where similar was posted.
On another note, to address other back-and-forth postings, I wish people would not post any more about such things as "what's so important that you would (fill in the blank)".
That's a PERSONAL decision based on both circumstances and the individual. Not only can we make up anything at all that we wish which would play to one side or the other, it completely ignores what a particular person values and considers as risk. Certainly if I have a sick child burning up with a fever in the middle of the night, I'm going to be headed to Walmart, CVS, Rite Aid, Walgreens, etc. to get some children's Tylenol if I feel I have to. And I'll make whatever preparations I feel are necessary to accomplish that as safely as I can.
This thread is about a PROCESS, not a specific action.
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.455_Hunter
Member
Fair enough statement.
I agree that there are absolutely choices in the matter, and making the best POSSIBLE and VIABLE decision is what we should be trying to achieve. In our post-COVID area, pretty much every store (excluding c-stores) closes by 11 pm, so late night adventures are going to be pretty limited beyond needing to access the one 24 hour Walgreens in a 20 mile radius. If I do chose to go out later, I generally patronize a limited set of establishments with which I am very familiar and understand what occurs there. By their very nature, they may have elevated rates of incidents, but are nowhere near what happens at alternative locations in more degenerate areas. The protocols I outlined above are what guides my conduct at such locations.
The issue I take is with the concept that pure planning and organizing can alleviate the need to ever go out late, which a total load of bunk. Some people MAY be able to pull it off better that others, but without EXACTLY understanding an individual's life responsibilities, work requirements, and local geography, people have ZERO validity in criticizing such choices.
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crstrode
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DeepSouth
Random Guy
When I read threads like this one, (and when Kleanbore tells us not to open the door for a strange noise) all I can think of how my wife would react if I took the advise normally given here.
90% of the time I leave the house after dark I’m simply an errand boy. I can just pitcher some of these conversations…. Which would inevitably end in her going “fine I’ll do it then”. At which point I’d be doing it anyway, just with a mad wife.
The answer to the question about what I’d be going to get after dark, is a happy wife, which gets me a happy life. That is reality.
Old Dog
Member
This thread just keeps reminding me of all the times I went back home (Detroit) to visit, whenever I'd head out to my favorite Coney Island, pizza or barbeque spot, usually later at night ('cause that's when you get the cravings), I'd let Mom know where I was going, first words out of her mouth always were, "Be careful, that's not a very nice neighborhood,' in her typical mode of understatement.
Lo-Profile
Member
I go into bad areas
Because there are no safe areas anymore. Thanks to ..... Well ..... You watch the news
Because there are no safe areas anymore. Thanks to ..... Well ..... You watch the news
The Night Rider
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Not Worth The Ding
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RetiredUSNChief
Member
Absolutely.
I take issue with this also, because that's not the gist of what I was trying to get across in the first place. To pick a circumstance on either side of the equation and make that an argument point totally disrupts the whole point of the thread, which is to be intelligent in how we think and act on the subject of self-defense.
It's quite obvious to me from our past interactions that you (and many others here) know that self-defense is a holistic, layered concept. We know we cannot afford to focus on one aspect to the exclusion (or detriment) of all others. This is, in fact, why we study and train...to understand this and better equip ourselves to be able to survive in the event we're the unfortunate target of some violent attack.
I tried to bring people back to this in a comment above that this thread is about a PROCESS and not any specific ACTION.
Dad once told me decades ago (wow...it's been THAT long): "God gave you a brain for a reason. USE it."
Our brain is our most powerful tool, and yet too many apparently people undervalue it's worth.
And this process goes beyond self-defense and into our everyday lives for other matters. I remember once relating an accident I had been in for which I totally did not see the other person as I pulled out into traffic. Another member asked a simple question that really made me think: "What were you thinking about just before the accident?" After I thought about that for a while, it made me realize that the "accident" (something totally beyond one's control) was really an "incident" that I could totally have avoided had I been in the proper mindset in the first place.
While life occasionally throws something at us that's totally out of the blue, the reality is that the vast majority of things could have been predicted and avoided/mitigated/dealt with better if people exercised due diligence in the first place.
I change carry guns when going to the big city (population 160k) of Springfield, MO.
My around town (population 240) around the house gun was a Ruger LC9s Pro w/ 2 spare mags that was recently replaced by a Glock 43 w/ 2 spare mags. Mag capacities of both guns are similar (7+1 with 8rd backup mags).
Going to the big city, I switch to my Glock 43X with it's higher mag capacity 15+1 and 1 to 2 spare mags at 15rds and 20rds.
I shoot both guns equally well and both guns use the same holsters.
Do I feel Springfield MO is a "Bad Area." No but it does have a larger population than my small town and with shopping, being my main reason to go there, there are more transitional areas.
Crime exists in both places. Evil knows no zip codes.
My around town (population 240) around the house gun was a Ruger LC9s Pro w/ 2 spare mags that was recently replaced by a Glock 43 w/ 2 spare mags. Mag capacities of both guns are similar (7+1 with 8rd backup mags).
Going to the big city, I switch to my Glock 43X with it's higher mag capacity 15+1 and 1 to 2 spare mags at 15rds and 20rds.
I shoot both guns equally well and both guns use the same holsters.
Do I feel Springfield MO is a "Bad Area." No but it does have a larger population than my small town and with shopping, being my main reason to go there, there are more transitional areas.
Crime exists in both places. Evil knows no zip codes.
Why?
fastbolt
Member
"BAD AREA"?? When I was working, that equated to it being a high crime area. They had to pay me to go there.
Back in those days that meant that the Magnum service revolvers and full-size double stack 9's & .40's they issued me, with spare magazines, were viewed as being marginally adequate. The 12GA pump was the weapon 'preferred' when things got dicey, and in later years it became an AR. What's changed? If anything, comparing a 5-6 shot revolver and a 7-17shot pistol is more or less just debating degrees of marginal. Suit yourself.
Now, while everyone may have their personal preference regarding their 'comfort level' of a handgun carried as a personal defensive weapon, you'd hope that most folks would take their skillset, knowledge and mindset more seriously in preparation for finding themselves in higher risk areas and circumstances. Presuming, or course, that they really want to be there in the first place, or must be there.
Back in those days that meant that the Magnum service revolvers and full-size double stack 9's & .40's they issued me, with spare magazines, were viewed as being marginally adequate. The 12GA pump was the weapon 'preferred' when things got dicey, and in later years it became an AR. What's changed? If anything, comparing a 5-6 shot revolver and a 7-17shot pistol is more or less just debating degrees of marginal. Suit yourself.
Now, while everyone may have their personal preference regarding their 'comfort level' of a handgun carried as a personal defensive weapon, you'd hope that most folks would take their skillset, knowledge and mindset more seriously in preparation for finding themselves in higher risk areas and circumstances. Presuming, or course, that they really want to be there in the first place, or must be there.
TomJ
Contributing Member
Deleted
I feel more comfortable with a few more rounds on tap.
Yeah, but why would that be any more the case whan you go to the big city?
What's your point?
When the GPS is my truck highlights bad areas, I drive around them.
In other words, how do you know other than the obvious? If you watch any of the cop reality TV shows, there doesn't seem to be any exclusivity as to where somebody gets in trouble.
I'm not a CC carrier and probably won't be one at least in town. I just keep my eyes and ears open and so far so good. Flame suit on.
In other words, how do you know other than the obvious? If you watch any of the cop reality TV shows, there doesn't seem to be any exclusivity as to where somebody gets in trouble.
I'm not a CC carrier and probably won't be one at least in town. I just keep my eyes and ears open and so far so good. Flame suit on.
Simply that there is no logical reason to think that what would be needed to defend against a violent criminal attack should be any different in "he big city" or anywhere else.
That was much easier than playing 20 questions.
My response, carry what you feel comfortable carrying with or - you do you.
Charlie Martinez
Member
Part of my business income comes from performing older building inspections for safety certification. These include performing parking lot and building exterior areas illumination surveys which have to done after dark. Some of these old buildings are situated in "bad" neighborhoods and I could get top dollar for doing these. In many cases the owner is willing to hire off duty police to be there during the survey. I turn them all down anyway. I also don't skydive and I quit spearfishing a long time ago.
I am not afraid of doing whatever I must do (and I do CC regularly) but one thing is to confront trouble if it finds you and another is to knowingly go looking for it. If I know its a "bad area" I don't go there unless I had an extremely good reason.
I am not afraid of doing whatever I must do (and I do CC regularly) but one thing is to confront trouble if it finds you and another is to knowingly go looking for it. If I know its a "bad area" I don't go there unless I had an extremely good reason.
DeepSouth
Random Guy
There could be a logical reason to believe the odds of said violent criminal attack could go up. Therefore a different carry option could be a logical one.
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