most accurate semi-auto 308

[futureranger]

i was wondering what your guy's thoughts were on the most accurate semi-auto 308. some people say a NM M1A, but i have also heard about the HK PSG-1 and DPMS 308 Ar's, im sure there are others but i was hoping you all could help with that.

 

[taliv]

something to look at: http://www.knightarmco.com/images/sr25.html

disclaimer: i've had mine for quite some time, but sadly have not had the opportunity to fire it. (waiting for suppressor and glass) I have VERY high expectations.

 

[Will Learn]

I shot a sub-moa (5 shot)group today with my DPMS LR-308 using hand loads. It usually shoots around 1 1/2inch groups consistently. I'm working on loads to keep it at a consistent MOA or better, which I know the rifle is capable of. The thing weighs a ton though.

 

[MarshallDodge]

I agree with taliv, Stoner makes a nice rifle but out of my price range. I got to shoot one about 10 years ago and was amazed.

I opted for the DPMS LR308 instead. For the money (~$1000) I don't think they can be beat for semi-auto accuracy. Mine has shot half MOA groups at 200 yards.

 

[Javelin]

DPMS LR308 instead

DPMS is up and coming in the AR world it seems. Which ones are the folks at Camp Perry using these days? Last I checked it was RRA builds with custom barrels, but that was some time ago.

 

[General Geoff]

I'd say the HK PSG-1 is up there, but good luck actually finding one.


Otherwise I'd say some kind of AR-10.

 

[Rifleman 173]

I'm partial to the M1As. Great rifles!! I've owned two in my day and plan on getting another soon. I've shot both the AR-10 type rifles and the M1As. The AR-10s are good out of the box and if you're new to long range shooting they are a good thing to go with and use. If you know things about the M1As then they're apt to be better for some shooters. If I were going to get an AR-10 type rifle, I would look for a slightly used, not abused or shot out, Bushmaster rifle. The Bushmaster AR-10 type rifles use the FN/FAL magazines which are a ton cheaper than other magazines for either the M1A or other AR-10 rifles.

 

[MachIVshooter]

Knights SR-25 and Armalite AR-10(T)/SASS are pretty much top of the heap for production stuff.

 

[bogie]

Please don't use the words "accurate" and "semi-auto" in the same sentence.

If you want to learn to shoot, and shoot accurately, get a good bolt action Remington 700, with a .308-size bolt face, and get it rebarreled with a select match heavy barrel, and put one of Arnold Jewell's triggers on it.

Or you can stay with the tacticool spray and pray crowd.

 

[Kind of Blued]

Or you can stay with the tacticool spray and pray crowd.

That whole post was a little harsh and unhelpful, not that I disagree with the message. I'll give my two cents however.

LONG ANSWER: I've been having an AR dilemma, trying to decide how many and what kind I should get. What I keep reminding myself of is that I need to buy the guns that I KNOW will give me the results that I want.

I love emptying a 30-round AK mag on an inanimate target as much as the other guy, and the AK is great for that.

The AR is a compromise, and there is no way to make it NOT a compromise. It is the best at, perhaps, nothing.

So instead of a DPMS LR 204, I am planning on buying a Remington XR100 Rangemaster, etc, etc, etc.

Basically, what it comes down to is that I want the DPMS SASS in .308 with a fantastic scope and a rail-tastic M4 with stuff all over it because you can't make any other firearm LOOK that cool. They are, of course, still wonderful firearms for many situations.

Short Answer: I haven't shot them all.

 

[JWarren]

Please don't use the words "accurate" and "semi-auto" in the same sentence.

BS. Is that why we see so many sub-MOA AR varmit rifles?

I've fired Bolt actions all my life, and I know the accuracy of a quality one. But I also know what is going on in world today.

Or you can stay with the tacticool spray and pray crowd.

Sounds like Hillary and Obama's message is getting to you, Bogie.


-- John

 

[Grunt]

Please don't use the words "accurate" and "semi-auto" in the same sentence.

If you want to learn to shoot, and shoot accurately, get a good bolt action Remington 700, with a .308-size bolt face, and get it rebarreled with a select match heavy barrel, and put one of Arnold Jewell's triggers on it.

Or you can stay with the tacticool spray and pray crowd.

Thank you Jim Zumbo for your insight. My M1A DMR clone will go into 3/4" groups any given day and into 1/2 inch groups on a good day when I have my poop together. Not too bad for some inaccurate spray and pray semi-auto buzz gun! While I don't have one yet, lets look at the AR-10, many other shooters that do own one also claim excellent groups that will give any boltguna run for it's money as well. So based on my personal experiences as well as the results I've heard from other shooters with accurate semi-autos, I believe that the best course of action is to take you with a grain of salt and ignore you.

 

[JWarren]

SA's Not Accurate???

From a DMPS LR-308 Stainless Steel 24" heavy barrel using commercial Winchester Ballistic Silvertips @ 100 yards:

-- John

 

[stubbicatt]

Now that is shooting well for you JWarren. I get about an inch out of my PTR91 with most any ammo.

 

[JWarren]

Now that is shooting well for you JWarren.

Thanks.... but fair is fair-- It's not my shooting, and not my rifle. That is from another poster that I know in another forum.

Stay tuned though... I have a project rifle in mind that will start with a DPMS LR-308. I've seen enough to know that the rifle can do what I need it to do. It remains to be seen if I'll do my part.


-- John

 

[gcrookston]

My M1a is sub MOA. The Psg1, although claiming to be MOA has, in my experience, never got better than 1.5 - 2.0. The Cobb MCR was on my hit list to get a .338 semi, with demonstrated 0.5 moa accuracy, but I think they sold out late last year, and I've not been able to find them again.

my m1a 3/3 shot groups during sight-in @ 100 yrds:

Shot with CYBERSHOT at 2006-07-24

 

[Baba Louie]

Please don't use the words "accurate" and "semi-auto" in the same sentence.

Muahahahahaha

Bogie, Please... tell that to this man... arguably a world class rifleman, with a straight face.

http://www.davidtubb.com/about_david.html

Now maybe he's not using a "production run" rifle straight off the shelves of his local gunshop, or your average run o' the mill ammunition bought at WallyWorld, but the man (and the man's rifles) can shoot a little, wouldn't you agree?

 

[JWarren]

I was thinking....

Before someone comes on the thread and talks about "out-of-the-box" or "standard configuration" accuracy, I thought I'd address it.

Some people will say that you CAN make a Semi-auto accurate, but it takes a great deal of "customization" and that this makes it an apples-to-oranges comparison to a "standard" bolt action. They will say that a CUSTOM Semi-auto can approach the accuracy of a STANDARD bolt action.


"Out-of-the-box" and "standard" configuration are meaningless terms in this day and age.

Firearms are basically customized on the fly now. Even in bolt actions, there are numerous options that range from stocks to barrels. As anyone every paid attention to how many Remington 700 models have been made?

In building a AR platform, the buyer typically selects from a list of options that may include Stainless barrels, competition triggers, etc.

Same principle.


If I were to order an Armalite AR-10(T), I am certain I'd receive it in a "box." Should I then consider this a "Standard" Configuration for the AR-10(T)?

If I ordered a Remington 40X, would I consider that the standard for a bolt action rifle if it were shipped in a box?

Or Should I consider a Remington 700 PSS Tactical in the same terms? I don't know...after all, it is fitted into a pillar bedded HS Custom Stock.

The fact is that to find out what "original" or "Out-of-the-box" configuration even IS for many rifles, you'd probably have to do some research.

The best we can do is compare rifles build for certain roles. It would not be fair to compare a LW-308 with a 16' M4 profile barrel to a Remington Sendaro with a heavy profile stainless 26" barrel.

Nor would it be fair to compare the above mentioned AR-10(T) to a Mosin Nagant.


The Bolt Action platform IS probably the most rigid and best-suited platform for building an accurate rifle. But that-- IN NO WAY-- negates the reality that a Semi-auto can be configured to hold competion-level accuracy. We have FAR too many people proving that every day.




My 2 cents.



-- John

 

[General Geoff]

The bottom line is that bolt actions are inherently more accurate, but semi autos can certainly overcome that built-in deficit if built properly.

 

[Grunt]

I think that is one more trueism that is going the way of the dodo the way we always said that the revolver was inherently more reliable than the auto. That may have been true back in the day when we were looking at the 1911, Hi-Power, S&W Model 39, the P38 and PP were about the only offerings in the auto world. However, today we see Glock, H&K, Sig, Beretta and a host of others that have been proving themselves as being extremely reliable. Reliable enough say that while in theory the revolver is more reliable, in practice there really isn't much of a difference anymore. I think the addage of bolt rifles being more accurate than autos still holds true for the time being but is being erroded away to a point where it's really going to be nothing more than accademics in the near future. Already it's been proven over and over again that a lot of semi-autos are NOT the inaccurate spray and pray weapons that the anti-gunners and Fudds make them out to be.

 

[MarshallDodge]

Please don't use the words "accurate" and "semi-auto" in the same sentence.

If you want to learn to shoot, and shoot accurately, get a good bolt action Remington 700, with a .308-size bolt face, and get it rebarreled with a select match heavy barrel, and put one of Arnold Jewell's triggers on it.

Or you can stay with the tacticool spray and pray crowd.

When I bought my first bolt action, a Remington 700, the guy at the gun shop told me the same thing. I had it for about a year and it shot tight little groups at 100 yards. My buddy had built an AR-15 as a target rifle and wanted to sell it. He was upgrading to an AR-10 and let me borrow the AR-15 one day to take to the range.

Here are my groups from both guns, the one on the left is a five-shot from the AR and the one on the right is from the Rem 700:

After that I was sold on the accuracy of AR based rifles.

 

[browningguy]

Quote:
Or you can stay with the tacticool spray and pray crowd.

That whole post was a little harsh and unhelpful, not that I disagree with the message.

Not only is it harsh and unhelpful, it's just plain wrong. The fact is my most absolute accurate rifle is a bolt action, not a Remington in need of a trigger job though, it's a Savage 12FV with the accutrigger. Since I settled on a handload it's averaged in the high.3"'s. My next most accurate rifle is a AR15, DPMS 16" bull barreled upper with free float tube, and it only averages about .1" bigger groups at 100 yards. At 300 and 600 yards the Savage wins by more, but I think if I had equivalent glass and a 24" barrel on the AR it would stay close.

I also am considering a DPMS in either .243 or .260, they can take the heavy bullets in both calibers and I am confident it will keep up with most sporter weight bolts out to 600.

 

[futureranger]

Thanks for the feedback, but the question was what is the most accurate SEMI-AUTO, not lets compare a semi-auto and a bolt-action accuracy, but the semi auto feedback was helpful thanks.

 

[GunTech]

I've owned an SR-25, two AT-10(T)s and am now shooting an M1A.

The SR-25 was nice, but KAC has horrible customer service and the gun is not really worth the price. I had both my AR-10s built with custom barrels, and either would shoot 1/2 MOA or better all day long. I printed many 5 round groups under 1/4 inch.

I bought the M1As mostly for nostalgia. Despite lots of work on my first M1A, it would never do better than 1/2 MOA, and was more like 3/4 MOA with handloads and the JAE-100 stock. It's a pain to scope an M1A, and no decent mount is what you would call 'reasonably' priced. I've heard people claim to have 1/4 M1As, but I've never seen one at the range or at a match. I love my M1As, but they are not sub MOA guns.

If I wanted a super-accurate semi, I'd get an AR-10 (these are usually a little more reliable than the DPMS, YMMV) and send it off to someone like GA precision.

Finally, the PSG-1 has this killer reputation, because almost no one has seen one. I had a chance to shoot one that belongs to a class III collector I know. He paid something like $13,000 for it a while ago. I don't think many made it into the US. It is a 1 MOA rifle. A tuned AR-10 will kick it's a**.

 

[rangerruck]

saiga...