Wrong Bore for SURE !!!

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All good suggestions but it would help a lot to know the age of the gun. A old one could be a 35-30 because of a bad bore. If it's newer it could be a miss mark. Either way should be a good gun being a Trapper whether a 30, 32, or 35.
 
Not sure about barrel diameters and barrel-groove dimensions, but a lot of guys were reaming their 35 cal levers to 38-55 strictly for lead bullet use. I would think a 30 bore barrel would be a little bit small in diameter. Just a thought...
 
RocknRoll said:
I hope someone can assist me in my travels here. I recently picked up a Winchester Trapper, 16" barrel. 30-30 caliber. Couldn't wait to get it to the range. Got there ! Couldn't hit a full size piece of poster board at 20 yards. Had to get within about 8 yards to hit the paper. NOTHING BUT KEYHOLES ! My first thought was different twist rate wont stabilize the 120 gr. bullets I was shooting. So when checking the twist rates I discovered that this trapper has a different twist rate than normally found in Winchester 30-30 rifles. It was 1/16 twist. Then I noticed that pushing a 30 cal patched cleaning rod thru the barrel was MUCH easier on the Trapper than it was on a full length Winchester 30-30. BIG difference. So I took an oversized cast 30-30 bullet (.310) and dropped it into the barrel on the Trapper and it fell thru the bore like water. Popped right out the breech and rolled onto the floor. There is NO QUESTION that this is NOT a 30-30 bore. BUT ! the barrel says VERY clearly that this is a 30-30. I am wondering if anyone has ever encountered a 32 Winchester Special miss marked as a 30-30. I have never even heard of this happening. This rifle looks to have about 98% factory original finish and shows little sign of use besides scuff marks. I seriously doubt it is a re bore. My local gun store guru says it's marked 30-30 DO NOT put anything else in it besides that. I agree, but this aint no 30-30. Any thoughts out there ?
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What did your fired brass look like? I don't think Winchester made the .32 special in a very long time. Pictures of your brass would help.
 
I'm betting .32-40 on this, it was a very popular Trapper chambering. . They had 1-16 rifling . I had a .32-40 Winchester John Wayne big hoop trapper in the 80s . It is based on 30-30 case (or vice versa) . I liked 32-40 alot !
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Are we talking about 35 Whelen ? Pretty sure this gun hasn't had 2 boxes of ammo thru it. Looks like a safe dweller for the most part. I'll be back on the Range Wednesday. I'll fire another 30-30 and measure the case mouth. That sounds like the easiest way to start. I'll be back with an update. Thanx, for all the help so far.
 
With the mismarked .30-30 on the barrel the twist rate could also be wrong. You’ll want to verify that, too.
 
Just a suggestion here... you already know something's not exactly right with that weapon.... If it were me the next time that rifle got examined - it would be by a competent gunsmith with all the gear needed to find out exactly what you have... I know it probably won't hurt anything to fire an undersized round - but I've gotten a bit cautious as I've gotten older and have little taste for adventure (or mis-adventure...) these days.

Matter of fact most of my best real-life stories usually end " but I was younger then"...
 
Gordon said:
I'm betting .32-40 on this, it was a very popular Trapper chambering. . They had 1-16 rifling . I had a .32-40 Winchester John Wayne big hoop trapper in the 80s . It is based on 30-30 case (or vice versa) . I liked 32-40 alot !
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Shoulder is too far back, and to shallow an arc for a .30-30 to fit without some effort and case mangling, though you are right about the twist rate. .32 Win. Spl. is the most likely answer.
I too am curious to see the fired cases.
 
Odd Job, sorry I forgot to answer your question. This was a gunshow find. Got it cheap ! Now I know why. Someone bought it, couldn't hit the inside of his house with it, thought it was defective and sold it cheap. Now I have it. Anyway, I have more info tonight. Tell me what you think ? Slugged the bore with a 36 caliber lead ball, it has 2 measurements. When my micro caliper, measuring thingy is resting between the grooves it measures about .316 when it rests on the grooves, it measure .321 and that's a 32 caliber bullet. I don't think it's a 32-40 because I think the brass would have expanded more. I found the brass that I fired thru it, (I just put em back in the box with the unfired bullets) I measured brass that I know was fired from an actual 30-30 rifle and the inside diameter of the case mouth was .308 - .310 the outside diameter of the same cases where about .331 - .333.................................then I measured the cases that I am pretty certain were the ones I fired thru this rifle and the Inside diameter was .320 and the outside diameter was .345.......................I am attaching some pictures for your discernment ! One piece of brass is from a 30-30 and the other is from my confused Trapper. Can you see any difference ? Oh, Almost forgot, The manufacture date was 1982. One of the last 2 years that Winchester was making them before selling out to Browning ? Or American arms or something like that. So what ya'll think so far ? 30-30 (2).jpg
MODEL 94 TRAPPER.jpg model 94 slug.jpg BRASS 2.jpg BRASS 1.jpg model 94 slug.jpg
 
P.S. Called Winchester customer service. They were clueless. Said they cannot advise because it was made before Browning took control, and they have no records. (Or technical advice I assume). they gave me the name of a recommended gunsmith.
 
Looks like a .32 Spcl to me. Probably a Friday after liquid lunch special. Nice rifle either way. You might want to look under the butt plate. You may find some info tucked there from the original owner.
.32%20Winchester%20Special14.gif
 
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That's interesting. Just read up on the .32 Winchester Special. Learned something new.
 
Look at both ends of the barrel as closely as you can. Look to see if you can see any signs of a barrel liner being used. If it wasn’t re-marked I can easily see somebody drilling through a worn or poor shooting bore and installing a barrel liner.
 
WestKentucky said:
Look at both ends of the barrel as closely as you can. Look to see if you can see any signs of a barrel liner being used. If it wasn’t re-marked I can easily see somebody drilling through a worn or poor shooting bore and installing a barrel liner.
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The gun isn't old enough, nor does it look used enough to have worn out a barrel, does it?

It would seem the mystery is solved regarding what chamber/caliber it is, the question remains as to why.

Is it common to rebore a barrel? Would a gunsmith who was good enough to do that not mark the barrel? Was Winchester making the .32 Special in 1982? Did a factory worker screw up a 30-30 barrel and decide to bore it out to .32 and keep it for himself?
 
Nature Boy said:
The gun isn't old enough, nor does it look used enough to have worn out a barrel, does it?

It would seem the mystery is solved regarding what chamber/caliber it is, the question remains as to why.

Is it common to rebore a barrel? Would a gunsmith who was good enough to do that not mark the barrel? Was Winchester making the .32 Special in 1982? Did a factory worker screw up a 30-30 barrel and decide to bore it out to .32 and keep it for himself?
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That’s precisely the question that lingers, and the fact that a reputable smith would have marked the barrel makes me wonder if it was a garage reline. Not hard or expensive to do, just takes time and patience. If done properly, a lined barrel would be bored very close to the diameter of the liner, liner inserted with a good epoxy to hold it, and then spun with a polishing tool on the muzzle and chamber to clean up any oozed epoxy remnants. Would be hard to see if done well, but it is the easiest way to change bore diameter on a rifle barrel.
 
I owned a 32 Win Spl wrangler bought new through Shotgun News back in the 80s. Receiver bore rollmark image of a prospector, IIRC but it was clearly marked 32 special. Sold it unfired for a bit more than the $130 paid.
 
RocknRoll said:
Odd Job, sorry I forgot to answer your question. This was a gunshow find. Got it cheap ! Now I know why. Someone bought it, couldn't hit the inside of his house with it, thought it was defective and sold it cheap. Now I have it. Anyway, I have more info tonight. Tell me what you think ? Slugged the bore with a 36 caliber lead ball, it has 2 measurements. When my micro caliper, measuring thingy is resting between the grooves it measures about .316 when it rests on the grooves, it measure .321 and that's a 32 caliber bullet. I don't think it's a 32-40 because I think the brass would have expanded more. I found the brass that I fired thru it, (I just put em back in the box with the unfired bullets) I measured brass that I know was fired from an actual 30-30 rifle and the inside diameter of the case mouth was .308 - .310 the outside diameter of the same cases where about .331 - .333.................................then I measured the cases that I am pretty certain were the ones I fired thru this rifle and the Inside diameter was .320 and the outside diameter was .345.......................I am attaching some pictures for your discernment ! One piece of brass is from a 30-30 and the other is from my confused Trapper. Can you see any difference ? Oh, Almost forgot, The manufacture date was 1982. One of the last 2 years that Winchester was making them before selling out to Browning ? Or American arms or something like that. So what ya'll think so far ? View attachment 823712
View attachment 823707 View attachment 823708 View attachment 823709 View attachment 823710 View attachment 823708
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Take a pic of the unfired 3030 and the fired case next to each other. I have both 30-30 and 32. It definitely looks like 32 Spl.
 
The fired case is a pretty good image of the chamber, though not as good as cerrosafe would be. Thing is, you don't have to get an answer down to the last .0001", you just need an answer good enough to distinguish one chambering from another.

You know that a .32 bullet is the right size, and you know that the cases look like 30-30, but with a wider mouth.

I say load up some 32 Special light loads, and see how it shoots.
 
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