CoalTrain49
Member
Tapered maybe?
Yeah, I believe you want to say tapered round verse tampered round.The round would be a tampered round without a shoulder if done right.
Thanks Ron, I didn't catch that the auto correct changed what I typed. I wish I could turn the darn thing off.Yeah, I believe you want to say tapered round verse tampered round.
Ron
First off the expander plug is not any longer as they use the same expander for both mag and max and the decaping pin is in the size die.RC used a magnum die not a maximum die first off, the mag case is 0.315 shorter than the max case which means the depriming/expanding rod is longer too.
Rim thickness is not the thickness of the prass at the mouth it's the thickness of the rim at the base of the case. And your math is wrongThe rim diameter is listed as 0.045 so 0.09 total for both sides. The Maximum case thickness is 0.060 per side for total of 0.12. 0.12-0.09 =0.03 that is the total differences in the case sizes O.D. as well. So a rod the same size O.D. as the Maximum rod made to expand the full length of the 223 case should make a straight walled 0.376 inch O.D. case. That would give you an I.D. of 0.367 which is large enough to put a 195 grain 38 S&W bullet if you so desired.
Well go ahead and show me exacticly how this works out.That is the goal of this discussion. Not trying to find ways that it will not work out but to find ways that it will work out.
A disgenuine arguement, all components and ammunition is and always has been readily avaliable.Did I say I was designing this to save cost on brass? No. The idea was to be able to make a round that both the cases and bullets were easy to come by or cast if you couldn't buy them at the LGS because they were not available from the factory.
First off the expander plug is not any longer as they use the same expander for both mag and max and the decaping pin is in the size die.
I did not realize that the depriming pin/expander was made different till I real examined it earlier today. Now using the 223 case and a 125 grain 8 mm round would be moving faster than 1500-1600 fps using the right powder. The M1 30 moves that fast with a 130 grain cast bullet and it is a shorter and smaller round. From comparing other round about the same size but a little shorter I figure you would get about 2000 fps at least possibly more from the lighter 125 grain round.First off the expander plug is not any longer as they use the same expander for both mag and max and the decaping pin is in the size die.
Rim thickness is not the thickness of the prass at the mouth it's the thickness of the rim at the base of the case. And your math is wrong
.376-.090=.266
The reality is that 357 mag and max case thickness at the mouth is .011 223 case thickness at the mouth is .0145 so if you did blow the case out straight the largest bullet you could use would be .347.
Well go ahead and show me exacticly how this works out.
125gr bullet @ 1500-1600fps isn't exactly what I call bear medicine.
A disgenuine arguement, all components and ammunition is and always has been readily avaliable.
There's is no shortage of 22 ammo, primers or powder you can buy all the 22 ammo you want it just cost $60 a brick.
Maybe from a rifle, not from a handgun. even at 2000 with a 125 you're still not talking bear medicine.Now using the 223 case and a 125 grain 8 mm round would be moving faster than 1500-1600 fps using the right powder.
Probably have to use a heavier bullet for bear not the 125 grain one but at 2000 fps with the 125 grain would give you a muzzle energy of around 1110.Maybe from a rifle, not from a handgun. even at 2000 with a 125 you're still not talking bear medicine.
Going to a bigger bullet maintaining a usable OAL is going to limit powder capacity. If bullet weight goes up velocity is gonna drop as is energy, there's just no getting around the fact that case capacity is going to end up very close to that of a 357 magnum meaning power is going to be close to that of a 357 magnum.Probably have to use a heavier bullet for bear not the 125 grain one but at 2000 fps with the 125 grain would give you a muzzle energy of around 1110.
Going to a bigger bullet maintaining a usable OAL is going to limit powder capacity. If bullet weight goes up velocity is gonna drop as is energy, there's just no getting around the fact that case capacity is going to end up very close to that of a 357 magnum meaning power is going to be close to that of a 357 magnum.
I'm sorry but your wildcat is a very short sighted answer to the questions you're asking of it.
Buck,A handgun chambered to accept a 45-70 case cut down would be something that would seem to be quite easily done. Same bullet, same powders, same primers and even same cases if you cut down your own.
Buck,
45/70 is tapered so if you cut it back to pistol length you'd need to taper it more already done or blow it out straight and use a bigger bullet again already done. I vote for that.
Well it's still too long for a reasonable handgun, rifle combo. Most guys I know that hunt with large framed BFRs and X frames don't carry a rifle because the size of the handgun is too cumbersome.What do you guys think of a 10mm x 42mm with a 200 grain xtp or jsp round?
Most guys I know that hunt with large framed BFRs and X frames don't carry a rifle because the size of the handgun is too cumbersome.
Yes, there's especially no need for a rifle that wouldn't extend the range and accuracy much beyond the range that these fine handguns are capable of.Most I know that hunt with BFRs and X-Frames are also using them for their primary weapon and not a backup....thus no rifle is needed.
When I started this discussion I was thinking rifle style bullets because the velocity issues with trying to push a handgun style bullet over 2k fps. The only XTP style handgun round that will handle that kind of speeds is the XTP Mag line that is only available in a .45 cal bullet that I can see, which is way too large for ether case. I have found molds for cast bullets in the range one would need for a project of this type, and that are the heavy bullets that would be needed to penetrate the big brutes. Problem is I do not know if a cast bullet can be pushed anywhere near the 2k Mark.Well it's still too long for a reasonable handgun, rifle combo. Most guys I know that hunt with large framed BFRs and X frames don't carry a rifle because the size of the handgun is too cumbersome.
And 40 cal handgun bullets are designed for handgun velocities pushing them as hard as you would will cause poor terminal performance.
That'd be a good thing to research.Problem is I do not know if a cast bullet can be pushed anywhere near the 2k Mark.
Whenever you change design parameters you really need to look at possible problem these changes cause if you did you would understand that a straight walled case is going to be problematic to feed in a AR that was designed to feed a tapered case. also with the thickness of a case designed to withstand 60,000 psi you'll still need to lube cases with carbide dies or you'll stick cases.A straight wall .357 Automag cartridge that would function through an AR action & magazines and which could be reloaded with carbide dies would seem to be a useful cartridge.
I have not started casting yet so that will take some doing on my part. Some of the molds are interesting though, example in 40 cal they have molds ranging from 135 grain all the way up to a 385 grain tapered paper patch round. That round with a 3/4-length jacket added to it in a way that the jacket wouldn't separate from the core and could be fired in a carbine or handgun around the 2k mark would probably devastating to what ever it hit.That'd be a good thing to research.
The fired 6.5mm case must have pushed the shoulder forward some or the specs in the manual is off some. The manual shows 1.622 inches from the base of the shoulder to the end of the case at the rim. After cutting this case off at the shoulder and running a 40 die a half inch down the case it is 1.640 inches long. To see about how much room you would have in the case after seating a bullet all the way to the bottom of that 1/2 inch section, I filled the case up to the start of the small shoulder the die created with longshot powder. I then dumped the powder into my powder tray and weighed the results. I had exactly 26 grains of powder in the case that I put back into my container. So 26 grains of Longshot x 0.0824 VMD = 2.1424 CC' s of usefully powder capacity. Having trouble finding what the case is pressure checked to, is is not listed in the data for t in the Lee manual and is not listed at all in the Lyman manual. Still researching for future use for other rounds since I would never use this case as a parent case because they are hard to come by. Still like playing around with it.It'd take less time and effort to learn about what works and what doesn't by actually reading and studying a little, than you've spent here. There's literally 150 years of cartridge developement to draw from, most everything you can think of has been tried. I mean don't you think if you could use plentiful 223 cases with equally plentiful 9mm or 357 bullets in an AR that it wouldn't already be in mass production?
For the record hard cast water quenched bullets will work to about 1600fps gas checks will get you to 2000 or a little better.
There are plenty of cartridges that will push a 400gr bullet 2000fps. Look them up see what their powder capacity is then look what you have avaliable in a 6.5 case. It's not magic or rocket science it follows pretty simple physics.