Bear Kills Two...

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It isn't whether this guy would have been armed or not. There's a much large story here. The NPS has done all it can to ensure that bears on its turf are not going to bolt off at the site of a person. In the bad old days at Yellowstone they would feed the bruins. Now they carefully acclimate the bear to humans, who come and take pictures at distances I consider INSANELY close. They keep a tight, tight lid on the park. Very few get in unless on a tour with a guide or by special permission, and they have to fly in. Frankly what needs to happen is opening these parks up to hunting under state F&G laws--just like National Forest Lands. That would mean fewer photo ops, since the bears will typically bolt, but it would also help return things to their proper order.

The NPS tames bears.
 
Yeah, I agree 100%. They ought to at least turn it over to refuge status and lighten up those controls. Of course, that will never happen...

Some parts of Katmai are open to guns/hunters. I was going over on a caribou hunt a couple of years back because it's just across the straits and a cheap hunt, from Kodiak. That hunt fell through for various reasons, but you can hunt in some areas well away from Brooks River and the tame bears.

Kaflia Bay (where this attack happened) is a good sixty miles from Brooks, and it's on the opposite side of the mountains, which are high and topped with glaciers and ice fields. I'm sure none of these bears in Kaflia have been through that mess on Brooks River. These bears are "wild".

Keith
 
OK, they've released the names. You may have seen Treadwell on the discovery channel with a series called "Grizzly Diaries".


Bear enthusiast, companion fatally mauled in Katmai National Park
Pilot discovers scene of brown bear attack


By Rachel D'Oro
The Associated Press

(Published: October 7, 2003)

(Ron Engstrom / Anchorage Daily News)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Click on photo to enlarge
A self-styled bear expert who once called Alaska's brown bears harmless party animals was one of two people fatally mauled in a bear attack in Katmai National Park and Preserve - the first known bear killings in the 4.7-million-acre park.

The bodies of Timothy Treadwell, 46, and Amie Hugenard, 37, both of Malibu, Calif., were found near Kaflia Bay on Monday when a pilot with Andrew Airways arrived to pick them up and take them to Kodiak, Alaska State Troopers said. The park is on the Alaska Peninsula.

Treadwell, co-author of "Among Grizzlies: Living With Wild Bears in Alaska," spent more than a dozen summers living alone with Katmai bears, and videotaping them. Information on Hugenard was not immediately available.

The Andrew Airways pilot contacted troopers in Kodiak and the National Park Service in King Salmon after he saw a brown bear, possibly on top of a body, in the camp Monday afternoon.

Park rangers encountered a large, aggressive male brown bear when they arrived at the campsite and killed it. Investigators then found human remains buried by a bear near the campsite, which was in a brushy area with poor visibility.

No weapons were found at the scene, Park Service spokeswoman Jane Tranel said. Firearms are prohibited in that part of the park.

The remains and the entire campsite were packed out Monday and transported to Kodiak on the Andrew Airways flight.

As the plane was being loaded, another aggressive bear approached and was killed by park rangers and troopers. The bear was younger, possibly a 3-year-old, according to Bruce Bartley, a spokesman for the Alaska Department of Fish and Game office in King Salmon.

The bodies were flown to the state medical examiner's office for autopsy.

Dean Andrew, owner of Andrew Airways, said the pilot was too upset to comment. The company had been flying Treadwell out to Katmai for 13 years and Huguenard for the last couple of years. Andrew said Treadwell as an experienced outdoorsman.

"We were all good friends with him," he said. "We haven't had time to deal with it."

Treadwell was known for his brazen confidence around bears. He often got so close he could touch them. He gave them names. Once he was filmed crawling along the ground singing as he approached a sow and two cubs.

Over the years, Park Service officials, biologists and others expressed concern about his safety and the message he was sending out.

"At best he's misguided," Deb Liggett, superintendent at Katmai and Lake Clark national parks, told the Anchorage Daily News in 2001. "At worst he's dangerous. If Timothy models unsafe behavior, that ultimately puts bears and other visitors at risk."

That same year, Treadwell was a guest on the "Late Show with David Letterman," describing Alaska brown bears as mostly harmless "party animals." He said he felt safer living among the bears than running through New York's Central Park.

In his book, Treadwell said he decided to devote himself to saving grizzlies after a drug overdose, followed by several close calls with brown bears in early trips to Alaska. He said those experiences inspired him to give up drugs, study bears and establish a nonprofit bear-appreciation group, called Grizzly People.

Grizzly and brown bears are the same species, but brown is used to describe bears in coastal areas and grizzly for bears in the Interior.

Treadwell and Huguenard were videotaping bears at the Kaflia Bay lakes, usually not frequented by visitors, according to Park Service spokesman John Quinley. He said bears are attracted to the area by a late run of salmon passing through lakes.

The site is 60 air miles east of Brooks Camp, the best known and most frequently visited bear-watching site in the park. Although it is reachable only by float plane or boat, as many as 300 people visit in July, when scores of bears congregate at the Brooks River as sockeye salmon make their way to spawning grounds.

"July is prime-time for bears there," Quinley said. "It's a worldwide destination."

In the mid-1980s, a brown bear mauled the body of a visitor who drowned, but this week's attacks are the first known bear killings in the park, Quinley said.

Rangers planned to return to the site Tuesday, but were waiting for low clouds to clear, Bartley said.
 
Treadwell said he decided to devote himself to saving grizzlies after a drug overdose

Brain damage?


Treadwell was known for his brazen confidence around bears. He often got so close he could touch them. He gave them names. Once he was filmed crawling along the ground singing as he approached a sow and two cubs.

:rolleyes:

This guy was actively seeking Darwin. All I feel bad about is he lead someone else their demise. Oh, and some pity for the bears, as his ego gratification and overconfident bravado killed them too. Sounds like he wasn't an "expert" after all, but merely an accomplished dilletante who thought 12 years of being lucky was a stand-in for common sense and a true understanding of the unpredictability of his target subject
 
He's got a book on Amazon. You can read something about him in there (preview of the first 23 pages). There's a picture of him on the back cover.

He was into guns during his drug addict days. Sounds to me like it's possible he may have taken one for protection if it was allowed.

Among Grizzlies
 
FYI here's his website:

http://www.grizzlypeople.com/home.php

Too bad. There's even a "bear safety" posting there!

And check this out:

Grizzly People Founder Timothy Treadwell has lived peacefully with Alaskan grizzlies since the late 1980s. From late spring to autumn he immerses himself among these fascinating animals, who combine fearsome power and emotional depth unseen in most creatures. Living without weapons or fire, Treadwell studies the animals, all the while protecting them from humans who would kill them for trophies and their valuable body parts.
---

The irony. I would be tempted laugh about the "body parts" thing, but frankly it just sends terrible chills up my spine. They were already broken down and buried when the rangers found them. The whole thing is just terrible.
 
More info

From the ecoboy's own website, an interview with Treadwell:

http://www.leonardodicaprio.org/environ_06_tre_04.html

Q: That's amazing. You're there with no weapons. You're probably
the first human in history, I would think, to do something like this,
because even the indigenous people would hunt.

A: Yes, and they would battle the bears. I'm living in a part of Alaska where Yupik Eskimos lived and they did occasionally kill bears and drive them away from the food source, which is the opposite of what I'm doing. And I recommend to the public, if they do go into bear country, to carry bear spray. I've retired mine. I'm being very careful about what I'm saying here - I do recommend it for the average person in case they get into trouble. They should always be bear aware. Don't approach them. Don't feed them human food, or any food.

But if there is a sticky situation and someone has to make a decision to either lay down flat on their belly covering their neck and vital areas, or to use the bear spray, I recommend the use of the bear spray. It works for nine out of every ten people. A stinging eye is a lot better than a bullet or a dead person, because every time a person is killed by a bear, the bear is automatically killed.

But for me, I've evolved my work into this. I don't want to carry anything that disturbs the bear. I am there on a mission of peace. When I am there I treat myself in their wilderness like a kind alien. If somebody from another world came here, you would hope they would be kind and neutral and simply observe. And that's what I do. I'm just this kind of supernatural alien that comes into the wilderness and I want to be unconditional love and kindness (to them) and live with them and go with them and not carry something that will hurt them. I've adopted that strategy, and in the last two years I've had zero aggressive situations with bears.

That's not to say that a new giant male that's aggressive and wants to establish itself on the hierarchy couldn't come in and challenge me. That could always happen and that's why this work is always dangerous. As of now, I can move among the animals without interfering and record their secret world, kind of like a fly on the wall, and then educate people.
_________________

He also takes the opportunity to claim that if not for him these "last great bears" would all be poached by us locals! Absurd and insulting. Though I hate to speak ill of the dead.
 
Here's another insult I found on the web from the late Mr. Treadwell:

"I’m their lifeguard," he says simply. "I’m there to keep the poachers and sport hunters away."

I have to say, the more I see about this guy the more I dislike what he stood for. He seemed to view Alaska as his private third world nation, and us as the dangerous tribals who are poaching brown bears left and right. You know who stops poachers in Alaska? HUNTERS! Not this fellow.

But I await the autopsy results. We'll see if evil poachers killed him so they could kill "his" bears
 
They (all bears) should be regulated as varmint -- even a bounty would be great---:)
 
i'd have to disagree there.... but a normal hunting season would be nice, and on NP lands. it drives me nuts that "they" control supposedly public lands like that..
 
I'm going to disagree w/ you, EJ.

It is the people who are intruding here and there aren't really all that many bears around for them to really be considered varmints. If they cruise around the streets of Anchorage, then that might be the case, but it is far more likely the humans are in the bear's habitat than vice versa.

I'm sure Keith will tell us different about Kodiak, as I've seen that the locals do get bears coming around to their houses there.
 
On his TV specials, he always makes a big deal out of every fishing boat that wanders into the bay. He says they're "poachers" and he runs around lighting flares and stuff like that to "let them know someone is there to report them".
Of course, they're not poachers, just fisherman getting out of the weather. No fisherman is going to risk a million dollar boat to shoot a bear in Katmai when he go down the coast a few miles or across to Kodiak and shoot one legally. Heck, you can buy an over the counter tag for parts of Kodiak - no drawing even!

I think he really loved these bears, but he was also playing to the bliss-ninny crowd by making himself out as a hero and a "protector of bears" - and getting rich in the process.

The local paper is out and they've got a lot more info than is being reported online in the Anchorage paper. He was actually leaving at the end of September as he does every year, but he hung out in town for a couple of weeks and then went back just a few days ago to "say farewell to the bears". He's never been around the bears that late in the season (as I suspected), and the last red run has petered out. They tried to talk him out of it because the weather outlook has been just terrible and they didn't know when they could get back in and pick him up. And he WAS warned that the bears stop being friendly when the fish run out. He laughed all that off. He's an "expert".

Keith
 
Bears bring hundreds of millions of dollars into the state from hunters and tourists. They're not going to be classified as "varmints"!

And they DO wander around in downtown Anchorage! It happens all the time. In the winter, you can't drive through Anchorage without seeing a moose or three, and every once in awhile they get ornery and trample somebody to death.
Juneau is famous for bears in town. The black bears down there crawl through dumpsters like so many overgrown raccoons. People just shoo them away. My favorite bar down there is the Red Dog Saloon which has a mounted bear which was shot IN the bar...

Keith
 
but he was also playing to the bliss-ninny crowd by making himself out as a hero and a "protector of bears"


As the fact that he was quoted on the Leonardo DiCaprio website indicates. :rolleyes:
 
Last Big Meal

Sounds like one of the Big Dog males was taking one last easy meal before retiring to his den for the Winter.
Bears will even eat each other as happens when bigger males kill and eat smaller cubs. For this guy to think that these bears would treat him any different than they treat each other was foolhardy. In a time of thin resources when a bear is trying to pack on as many pounds as possible for the long Winter, it was bound to happen.
 
[rant]

What I want to know, is why you people think you have the right to carry a gun in a state park...an animal sanctuary??

Why, because it's unsafe, Joe! There are bears you say!

SO THEN STAY THE $#^ OUT. It's THEIR territory, not yours.

Why is this so difficult a concept?

Let me put it to you like this:

It would be like a burglar breaking into your house and you kill him, and others advocating the rights of burglars to be legally armed.

You were not put here to kill animals as you see fit, yes you must do it to eat, but not because your dumb-a$$ wants to take a stroll in the woods and is afraid of being eaten. Oh f'ing well. You take the risk, JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER MAMMAL.

[/rant]
 
Hmm, OK. Now that I've calmed down a bit, let me appologize for all the capitalized "yellings."

Now, I ask again.

Why is it you, a bi-pedal mammalian, believe you should have an unfair advantage over a quadra-pedal mammalian just because you *think* you are more intelligent and evolved?

I say, if you want to venture off into the big bad woods, where you could encounter anything, you do so at your own risk!! Just because society throws the wool over your eyes and makes you believe you should be at the top of the food chain, does not mean you actually are.

Take me for example. I am an avid recreational SCUBA diver. Every time I jump in the pool, I am exposed to millions of gallons and acres of water and ALL it's inhabitants. Many of which could eat me with nary a bit of remorse, because in my current state I'm a food source. I take the risk, knowing what could happen. You don't see me pissing and moaning because I should be able to have a bang stick in FL waters. The Ocean is their inhabitance, I am mearly a visitor. I even have an AXO outfitters t-shirt that shows a diver being surrounded by sharks, and it says "You aren't always on top of the food chain." I also have another shirt that I got in Cayman that says:

"You could run out of air and die
You could get hit by a boat and die
You could get bit by a shark and die

Or you can sit home, fall off the couch and die."

Pretty much sums it up.
 
Joe,

Bears have claws and teeth and brute strength to DEFEND themselves. As for me, I have a gun to DEFEND myself. I call that pretty close to even, as each of our defenses has strengths and weaknesses.

I have just as much right to be there as the bear, or the wolverine, or the eagle, or the ground squirrel, etc., so long as I leave no traces of my presence behind and don't disturb the creatures any more than is necessary.
 
I'm just this kind of supernatural alien that comes into the wilderness and I want t

What infuriates me is his self proclaimed expertness. I mean, he was there during the fat time of the year! That's like meeting the Raiderettes at a fundraiser for disabled kids, and thinking they always wore those outfits and smiled like I could pick a few to take home and have a TV dinner with!

I worked out of Chignik for a summer. Our salmon tender dropped off three German "scientists" at this park to study the Katmai crater(s). They were gone for a month. When I saw them again at the cannery cafeteria, they looked like death camp refugees. Their hair was long and matted, and their cheeks were gaunt. Their clothes were torn and muddy. They told a story of getting lost, and being without fire for days. They jury rigged an outrigger on their inflatable kayak to get across a large bay to get picked up by a random fisherman. They were very lucky to survive. This story just to illustrate that up there, there is no mercy, no sun to navigate by, no trails. Just 10' tall alders thicker than anything you've ever tried to walk through. The only trails are made by bear. Its wet and inhospitable and merciless.

Damn right the natives, both current and pre-historical, "battled the bear"...

" I'm just this kind of supernatural alien that comes into the wilderness and I want to be unconditional love and kindness (to them) and live with them and go with them and not carry something that will hurt them. I've adopted that strategy, and in the last two years I've had zero aggressive situations with bears. "

Oh man....good riddance. Sorry for the family though...

Who's gonna tell Leonardo?
 
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