Bear Kills Two...

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I'm just this kind of supernatural alien that comes into the wilderness and I want to be unconditional love and kindness (to them) and live with them and go with them and not carry something that will hurt them. I've adopted that strategy, and in the last two years I've had zero aggressive situations with bears.

This reminds of the blissninny girl DrJones mentioned in the "silly anti-gun comments" thread who insisted that crime only ever happens to people who fear it. If you just have love and compassion for everyone in the world, no one will ever hurt anyone.

Whether the topic is bears or people, this is such a disconnect from reality that it boggles the mind.
 
.45FMJoe,

if you feel safe without weapon on land or by sea, don't carry a weapon and chance becoming a meal like that "expert" bozo. for the rest of us who want to enjoy the same scenery with some degree of security against things that have huge phsycal advantage over us 2 leggers, i recomend something in the 45-70 gov't range.

we ARE the most intelegent species, and that does put us on top of the foodchain, but not without the use of that intelegence and tools that you consider an unfair advantage.
 
I am continually amazed by complacent experts, be it Treadwell or Roy. Bears can and do kill and sometimes ingest people. Big cats love to eat people. Being in close proximity to either and going at it au naturale (no weapons except those you are born with) and the humans are going to lose. Morons.

No doubt some idiot at Treadwell's funeral will make the comment that he died doing what he loved. Of course they will be referring to spending time with the grizzlies, but that probably is not how he died. He probably died being chomped to death is a fairly horrific circumstance.

If Treadwell is who I think he is, I have seen some of his stuff on TV (Discover Channel?). He note that he understood bear behavior and that over the years the bears had come to recognize him and so he was not seen as a threat, but more or less just part of the environment. There are many animals in the bear's immediate environment that are not threats and the bears kill an eat them. Why the hell this guy thought he was different is way beyond comprehension for me. More over, things like cubs, territoriality issues, and even some ailments (disease or injury) will make bears behave in significantly more aggressive manners than is normal. So the understanding of bear behavior and being safe really is only valid when things are going properly. In nature, many things are not normal or proper.

Several years ago, I saw part of the eulogy for a champion free climber on TV. Free climbing is done without ropes an in this guy's case, he often went completely solo. When he went missing, there was a searh and he was found where he had plummeted to his death. In the eulogy, the person was saying that he died doing what he loved. She meant climbing, but climbing didn't kill him. He died in the high speed impact on rock after plummeting.
 
http://www.adn.com/front/story/4110831p-4127072c.html

Wildlife author killed, eaten by bears he loved
KATMAI: Many had warned Treadwell that his encounters with browns were too close.

By CRAIG MEDRED
Anchorage Daily News

(Published: October 8, 2003)
A California author and filmmaker who became famous for trekking to Alaska's remote Katmai coast to commune with brown bears has fallen victim to the teeth and claws of the wild animals he loved.

Alaska State Troopers and National Park Service officials said Timothy Treadwell, 46, and girlfriend Amie Huguenard, 37, were killed and partially eaten by a bear or bears near Kaflia Bay, about 300 miles southwest of Anchorage, earlier this week.

Scientists who study Alaska brown bears said they had been warning Treadwell for years that he needed to be more careful around the huge and powerful coastal twin of the grizzly.

Treadwell's films of close-up encounters with giant bears brought him a bounty of national media attention. The fearless former drug addict from Malibu, Calif. -- who routinely eased up close to bears to chant "I love you'' in a high-pitched, sing-song voice -- was the subject of a show on the Discovery Channel and a report on "Dateline NBC." Blond, good-looking and charismatic, he appeared for interviews on David Letterman's show and "The Rosie O'Donnell Show" to talk about his bears. He even gave them names: Booble, Aunt Melissa, Mr. Chocolate, Freckles and Molly, among others.

A self-proclaimed eco-warrior, he attracted something of a cult following too. Chuck Bartlebaugh of "Be Bear Aware,'' a national bear awareness campaign, called Treadwell one of the leaders of a group of people engaged in "a trend to promote getting close to bears to show they were not dangerous.

"He kept insisting that he wanted to show that bears in thick brush aren't dangerous. The last two people killed (by bears) in Glacier National Park went off the trail into the brush. They said their goal was to find a grizzly bear so they could 'do a Timothy.' We have a trail of dead people and dead bears because of this trend that says, 'Let's show it's not dangerous.' ''

But even Treadwell knew that getting close with brown bears in thick cover was indeed dangerous. In his 1997 book "Among Grizzlies,'' he wrote of a chilling encounter with a bear in the alder thickets that surround Kaflia Lake along the outer coast of Katmai National Park and Preserve.

"This was Demon, who some experts label the '25th Grizzly,' the one that tolerates no man or bear, the one that kills without bias,'' Treadwell wrote. "I had thought Demon was going to kill me in the Grizzly Maze.''

Treadwell survived and kept coming back to the area. He would spend three to four months a summer along the Katmai coast, filming, watching and talking to the bears.

"I met him during the summer of '98 at Hallo Bay,'' said Stephen Stringham, a professor with the University of Alaska system. "At first, having read his book, I thought he was fairly foolhardy ... (but) he was more careful than the book portrayed.

"He wasn't naive. He knew there was danger."

NO PROTECTION

Despite that, Treadwell refused to carry firearms or ring his campsites with an electric fence as do bear researchers in the area. And he stopped carrying bear spray for self-protection in recent years. Friends said he thought he knew the bears so well he didn't need it.

U.S. Geological Survey bear researcher Tom Smith; Sterling Miller, formerly the Alaska Department of Fish and Game's top bear authority; and others said they tried to warn the amateur naturalist that he was being far too cavalier around North America's largest and most powerful predator.

"He's the only one I've consistently had concern for,'' Smith said. "He had kind of a childlike attitude about him.''

"I told him to be much more cautious ... because every time a bear kills somebody, there is a big increase in bearanoia and bears get killed,'' Miller said. "I thought that would be a way of getting to him, and his response was 'I would be honored to end up in bear scat.' ''

A number of other people said that over the years Treadwell made similar comments to them, implying that he would prefer to die as part of a bear's meal. All said they found the comments troubling, because bears that attack people so often end up dead.

RANGERS RETRIEVE REMAINS

Katmai park rangers who went Monday to retrieve the remains of Treadwell and Huguenard -- both of whom were largely eaten -- ended up killing two bears near the couple's campsite.

Katmai superintendent Deb Liggett said she was deeply troubled by the whole episode.

"The last time I saw Timothy, I told him to be safe out there and that none of my staff would ever forgive him if they had to kill a bear because of him,'' she said. "I kind of had a heart-to-heart with him. I told him he was teaching the wrong message.

"This is unfortunate, (but) I'm not surprised. It really wasn't a matter of if; it was just a matter of when.''

What led up to the latest Alaska bear attack, as well as exactly when it happened, is unknown. The bodies of Treadwell and Huguenard, a physician's assistant from Boulder, Colo., were discovered Monday by the pilot of a Kodiak air taxi who arrived at their wilderness camp to take them back to civilization. A bear had buried the remains of both in what is known as a "food cache.''

The couple's tent was flattened as if a bear sat or stepped on it, but it had not been ripped open, even though food was inside. The condition of the tent led most knowledgeable observers to conclude the attack probably took place during the daylight hours when Treadwell and Huguenard were outside the tent, instead of at night when they would have been inside. Most of their food was found in bear-proof containers near the camp.

Officials said the camp was clean but located close to a number of bear trails. Because of the concentration of bears in the Kaflia Lake area and a shortage of good campsites, however, it is almost impossible to camp anywhere but along a bear trail there.

EXTENDED THEIR STAY

Treadwell and Huguenard, who was in the process of moving from Colorado to Malibu to live with Treadwell, had last been heard from Sunday afternoon when they used a satellite phone to talk to Jewel Palovak. Palovak is a Malibu associate of Treadwell at Grizzly People, which bills itself as "a grass-roots organization devoted to preserving bears and their wilderness habitat.''

Palovak said she talked with Treadwell about his favorite bear, a sow he called Downy. Treadwell had been worried, Palovak said, that the sow might have wandered out of the area and been killed by hunters. So instead of returning to California at the end of September as planned, Treadwell lingered at Kaflia to look for her. Palovak said Treadwell was excited to report finding the animal alive.

PILOT CALLS IN TRAGEDY

What transpired in the hours after the phone call is unknown. The Kodiak pilot who arrived at the Treadwell camp the next day was met by a charging brown bear. The bear forced the pilot for Andrew Airways back to his floatplane.

Authorities said he took off and buzzed the bear several times in an effort to drive it out of the area, but it would not leave the campsite established by Treadwell and Huguenard. When the pilot spotted the bear apparently sitting on the remains of a human, authorities said, he flew back to the lake, landed, beached his plane some distance from the camp and called for help from troopers and the Park Service.

Interviews with sources who were on the scene provided this account:

Park rangers were the first to arrive. They hiked from the beach toward a knob above the camp hoping to be able to survey the scene from a distance. They had no sooner reached the top of the knob, however, than they were charged by a large brown bear.

It was shot and killed at a distance of about 12 feet. The Andrew Air pilot, according to Bruce Bartley of the Alaska Department of Fish and Game, was convinced the large boar with the ratty hide was the same animal he'd tried to buzz out of the campsite. The boar was described as an underweight, old male with rotting teeth.

Authorities do not know if it was the bear that killed Treadwell and Huguenard. They were to fly to the site on Tuesday to search the animal's stomach for human remains but were prevented from doing so by bad weather.

After shooting that bear, rangers and troopers who had by then arrived walked down to the campsite and undertook the task of gathering the remains of the two campers. While they were there, another large boar grizzly went through the campsite but largely ignored the humans.

A smaller, subadult that appeared later, however, seemed to be stalking the group. Rangers and troopers shot and killed it.

"It would have killed Timothy to know that they killed the bears,'' Palovak said, "but there was no choice in the matter."

"He was very clear that he didn't want any retaliation against a bear,'' added Roland Dixon, a wealthy bear fan who lives on a ranch outside of Fort Collins, Colo., and has been one of Treadwell's main benefactors for the past six or seven years. "He was really adamant that he didn't want any bear to suffer from any mistake that he made. His attitude was that if something like this were to happen, it would probably be his fault.''

Bartlebaugh of "Be Bear Aware'' has no doubts that Treadwell loved the animals but believes the love was misguided.

"I'm an avid bear enthusiast,'' Bartlebaugh said. "It's the same attitude that I think Timothy had, but I don't want them (the bears) to be my friends. I don't want to have a close, loving relationship. I want to be in awe of them as wild animals.''

Palovak, Treadwell's associate, and Dixon take a different view.

"I think (Timothy) would say it's the culmination of his life's work,'' Palovak said. "He always knew that he was the bear's guest and that they could terminate his stay at any time. He lived with the full knowledge of that. He died doing what he lived for.''

"He was kind of a goofy guy,'' Dixon said. "It took me a while to get in tune with him. His whole life was dedicated to being with the bears, or teaching young people about them. That's all he ever did. It was always about the bears. It was never about Timothy. He had a passion and he lived his passion. There will be no one to replace him. There's just nobody in the bear world who studies bears like Timothy did.''

Dixon acknowledged Treadwell took risks with bears but dismissed as envious those who criticized his behavior .
 
This story answers a few of yesterdays questions. It looks like they were not killed in the tent. They did have some food in the tent, but the bear(s) ignored it.
The bear that killed them (probably) was an old male in poor shape who took them down as food.

His philosophy: "I would be honored to end up in bear scat."

The weather was miserable here yesterday and nobody has been able to fly. It's clearing today and so they'll be back out there to sort it out a bit and retrieve any "parts" they might have missed.

Keith
 
talk about pucker factor.... those rangers dropping a griz at 12 ft :what:

well, he acomplished his task of not comming on like a threat, the bears apparently thought him the same amount of threat as a tasty salmon
 
If the NPS has decided that weapons are prohibited in that park, why were the Rangers armed?
 
The weather was miserable here yesterday and nobody has been able to fly. It's clearing today and so they'll be back out there to sort it out a bit and retrieve any "parts" they might have missed.


Somehow, if there are any human remains they didn't get the first time, I think that more bears may die (never mind the bear carcasses).

I was going to say what Keith mentioned about the old boar, who probably couldn't hunt much and relied on fishing and occasional critters for sustinence. Killing humans is easy enough for a worn out bear.

The younger bear probably was scavenging and smelled "tree-hugger" fricasee and came to the area to get his share, only to be killed.


Let's see, 1 dead moron, 1 dead human, and 2 dead bears. Perhaps we should keep a running total of the damage wrought by this idiot.
 
.45FMJoe-- Spoken like someone who lives in Florida :D

Frankly there are a lot of folks who come up here from Florida or California and feel insulted that any humans actually live here. To them, Alaska is the sanctuary which is supposed to somehow make up for their own mistakes with wildlife. In other words, it's OK to put that new golf course in because there's still wild bear in Alaska.

Unforunately, most of the these people don't have a clue about fish and game mangement in Alaska. There are over 30,000 brown bears in this state. They aren't endangered, not even remotely. Why? Because us crazy gun-toting locals have sought to protect them, while you folks in the paved-over hell have killed all of yours.

Back off. Way off.
 
What was this guys issue with hunters, anyway? He seems to have lived in a fantasy world where the park is full of poachers who will kill all "his" bears the second he leaves! This is absurd. Why do you suppose there are so many bear there? Because there are no hunters, and very few poachers. This guy apparently lived in a Steven Segall movie.

And ironically, he is responsible now for the deaths of two bear.
 
as i think back, i cant recall the last time a native alaskan was mauled by a bear. its usually a resident of alaska, but they likely werent born here.

i've always wondered why more tourists dont get eaten by bears. maybe the bears are getting kickbacks from the tourism industry? oh well...
 
Cosmo,

Good reply to joe!

I started to say something, but killed the reply because if I had said what I thought when I first read his note, this thread would be closed!

I get tired of people who come here for a week in the summer and look down their noses at the those of us who live here as if we're "intruding" on the natural world... How dare we run a set-net off the beach and catch hundreds of salmon! How dare we walk past them on the trail with a deer on our back and rifle in our hand!
But of course, they've seen "Grizzly Diaries" on the Discovery Channel and know everything there is to know...

Those people are a minority, but there's still way too many of them. We're lucky here because very few of them will spend the bread to get off the road system, but they do come...

Keith
 
hehhehehehe..... keiths post reminded me of my uncle. he lived in a little village off kodiak called ouzinkie (u-zinc-ee). quite a drunk, never made many right decisions in his personal life, but was a hell of a businessman, but anyways....
one day hes on a bender, and sees a couple of tourists who were staying at a lodge in the little village. these two tourists were fishing out of a small stream down the hill from his house. so he gets all riled up about those crazy outsiders, durn whiteys and whatnot (in case you didnt know, alaska natives are very prejudiced against whitey) who are stealing the natives fish, so he gets his rifle out, and puts a few rounds over their heads to scare them off!

he spent a couple months in a halfway house for that. we now return you to the topic of this thread.....
 
Lemme get this straight. You are not allowed to carry any firearm in any National Park in the U.S.? You are not allowed to carry for protection? In the wilderness? Where there are big bears that can eat you? What is the penalty for being caught in a Natinal Park with a firearm? I can completely understand not being able to hunt in one. But not being able to protect yourself when all you want to do is see the sights and enjoy nature is criminal. We have as much right as the animals to be there. If we are unarmed we have no defense against the likes of a bear. So as one dumb poster said to stay out if you are not willing to be eaten. That is stupid. Ill carry to protect myself no matter what the stupid law is. My life is worth more to me than a fine!
 
i cant recall the last time a native alaskan was mauled by a bear.

Ask a native what "giving a bear a belly ache" means! I was camped on the dirt strip at Karluk one time waiting for the weather to clear so I could get picked up. I was chatting with a local man and we were both watching a good sized bear who was nosing around the edge of the village.
I asked him what he was going to do about it, and he said would "give him a belly ache" after we (indicating the small group of stranded fisherman I was with) left. I asked him what he meant by that, but he just smiled and wouldn't tell me.
Later that day, or maybe the next day, we were joined by another native guy and his wife who was also waiting to get out to another village. I knew this guy quite well and I asked him about that "belly ache" line. He told me that when a bear comes around the village, they'll gut-shoot them. A gut-shot bear will depart and die "somewhere else" and they don't have to answer any questions from the federal boys.

And those little villages don't have much of a bear problem. The kids are safe.

Keith
 
Just stay out of the National Parks, they're more like zoo's anyway! There are only two places in Alaska where you feel "crowded" - downtown Anchorage and Denali Park...

There's a half million square miles of pristine wilderness here, so why go to Katmai or Denali?

Keith
 
Apparently, he never saw their 22nd body signal, which indicates you're invited to dinner.

Human, it's what's for dinner. :evil:
 
Reminds me of the fellow who was caught by a bear ...

"Oh Lord," he prayed desperately, "please let this bear be a Christian!"

"Heavenly Father," the bear said, "thank you for this food that you have provided."
 
The last major killing of local Alaskans I remember by bear was the McHugh Creek attack back in '95 or so. That was a fluke, when three runners ran smack into a huge boar guarding a fresh cache. There were no maulings, just two killings. IIRC, one swipe broke a woman's neck instantly while a second swipe sent a full-grown man flying into the underbrush, his lung and internal organs pierced. The third guy got away, and the bear made no effort to eat the people or maul at them. He just wanted them away, but he must have been so big merely a swat was enough to kill.

When I see a black bear, I yell at it to get out of there and it does. When I see fresh sign of brown bear, esp. on a major trail, I get the hell out of there. I'd love to see one up close in the wild, but the notion that I have some right to do so would be pretty arrogant. Treadwell was taking liberties with the rough end of the Pleistocene--an animal that outlasted saber-toothed tigers and short-faced bears.
 
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