You act like guys that carry a 5 shot snub are basically unarmed, but you carry a 8 shot auto and you're totally prepared for multiple armed assailants.
And guarantee I was in less danger yesterday sans seatbelt than you were on your drive home.
Capacity. How much does it matter to you?
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And guarantee I was in less danger yesterday sans seatbelt than you were on your drive home.
There’s a Glock 17 under the 5 shot SP101 with an aftermarket grip. Similar foot print but 13 round difference and the Glock is thinner. We could compare smaller revolvers but smaller autos still hold 10 to 16 rounds.
Good advice. Thanks for the great post!
The chances of my gaining those skills at may age is less than that of retuning to competitive racquetball, however.
More importantly, in my view, people who carry two extra mags who cannot do the things you do as well as you do are fooling themselves with a false sense of security.
Trunk Monkey
member
I live in a Colorado so I'm restricted to 15 rounds. That's probably more than I'll ever need but I still carry a reload. More for malfunctions than anything else but odds or not if I have to reload I have to reload.
Until it does.
Fine Figure of a Man
Member
I can and have been comfortable with a 5-6 round capacity carry pistol. My current EDC's have 10 to 15 round mags, are easily concealed and I can shoot faster and more accurately than with any of my lower capacity handguns.
I do not.
Trunk Monkey
member
Then don't leave the 20 rounder at home. I made a prediction at the beginning of this discussion that has proven true. The folks that have actually had to defend themselves aren't advocating for smaller, lower capacity guns
I've had bad guys threaten to beat my ass and take my gun.
I had two bad guys try to rob me one night while I was openly carrying a gun at work
I've had bad guys dare e to shoot them
I even had one psycho bastard come at me with an ax while I was armed. He was more scared of my OC spray than my gun.
Probably, but if it's all the same to you I'm going to carry my Glock 19 anyway.
Do you have a basis for that assertion?
Suppose his accomplice just keeps coming at you with a contact weapon?
WrongHanded
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Good point.
Here's my SP101 versus my G23 (.357 Sig)
5 shots of .357 Mag? Or 13 shots of .357 Sig? (The Sig cartridge is at least on par with the Magnum with these two barrel lengths)
Fine Figure of a Man
Member
Threads like this always follow the same path.
I am supportive of everyone's right to carry any handgun they choose. What that choice is does not matter to me in the least.
I am supportive of everyone's right to carry any handgun they choose. What that choice is does not matter to me in the least.
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Now, we have all these fantastic choices, calibers, and options. We just take it all for granted. But there was a time, and not all that long ago, when all these options and selections weren't available to us. Some think .32 not good enough. 32, a fairly capable caliber, has been
eclipsed by 9mm, 10mm,.38, .40.,45, amongst others, so now .32ACP is a "mouse caliber" . It was good enough for the president,
Teddy Roosevelt, when he EDC carried a FN 1900. SURE, now we have all these great choices, stronger calibers, higher capacity mags, do we really need all that extra
power ? All that extra capacity ?
IMO, if you need more than one mag or one gun(not that you should be limited, by anyone, in any matter, you should be free to make up your own mind, as to what, how, and how much you carry, as a matter of course) there's some paradigm that's wrong, in your daily routine. Maybe people skills, violation of the Rules Of Stupid, insufficient SA, poor judgment, in general, hard to say, in every specific case. But, case in point,
I know a cop who was on the street his whole career, right up to retirement, who never fired his gun, in the performance of his duties, i.e., at a criminal.
So, I guess what I said means, is, perhaps some of us need to take the entire situation into perspective. Once the novelty of being able to carry around an extra 50 pounds of
firearms gear wears off, or we just get tired of strapping on Batman's utility belt, every time we go out to retrieve our mail, perhaps some of us are going to be thinking,
"Gee, that Kahr 380(or Radom P-64, or CZ-70) is starting to look pretty good..."
Then again, maybe I'm the only one here, who uses my EDC light and multitool almost constantly, several times a day, but never, ever, uses their CC firearm.
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peacemaker45
Member
I'm late to the party, so forgive me responding more to the OP than the intervening 6 pages.
I admit to a degree of irrationality on this one. I've got the voice of reason in the back of my head that tells me I really should be carrying a G19, or the like, and yet I consistently don't do it.
It's not because I'm too lazy to carry a gun that big, either. Instead I usually carry a steel frame Ruger Commander, or, lately, 4" square butt, heavy barrel Model 10. (The CMD went off to get night sights, so I pulled the 10 out of the safe. I've got the CMD back, but haven't switched back over, yet.)
I'm well aware that either of those guns is a lot of iron relative to their payload, but my concern usually revolves around shootability first, with capacity coming around third or fourth. I don't care for guns that push the caliber envelope, relative to their size.
As for the "well, if you're going to carry a full sized steel gun, why not make it a hi- cap?" question, the answer gets a little more involved. Another facet of shootability, might better be termed shoot- ability. I've got many thousands of rounds through 1911s in competition, but I've never shot a hi- cap that much. The one time I borrowed my dad's G17 with 23 rd mags, and shot Limited Minor with it, well, it was boring.
I began my shooting career in SASS, and got used to the "action" element, transitioning guns, reloading, etc. Single Stack is similar in "action content," as about every time you move your feet, you're jamming a mag. (Revolver is the same, only more so.)
Transition to Limited, where you're "just shooting," and, well, I just never got interested.
Long story short, I carry a low cap platform because that's what I've got a ton of experience with in competition. And that experience comes because I think those platforms are "cool," or "fun," in part because they are low cap. And yes, I'm aware that the choice is sub optimal, and am not untroubled by that knowledge, but I make the choice, anyhow.
Though, it should be noted, I never took that reasoning to its ultimate logical absurdity: I never picked a Peacemaker or Vaquero for CCW, even though I have even more experience with them. (Well, there was this one time I carried a Super Blackhawk, but that was poor planning, not a reasoned decision.)
I admit to a degree of irrationality on this one. I've got the voice of reason in the back of my head that tells me I really should be carrying a G19, or the like, and yet I consistently don't do it.
It's not because I'm too lazy to carry a gun that big, either. Instead I usually carry a steel frame Ruger Commander, or, lately, 4" square butt, heavy barrel Model 10. (The CMD went off to get night sights, so I pulled the 10 out of the safe. I've got the CMD back, but haven't switched back over, yet.)
I'm well aware that either of those guns is a lot of iron relative to their payload, but my concern usually revolves around shootability first, with capacity coming around third or fourth. I don't care for guns that push the caliber envelope, relative to their size.
As for the "well, if you're going to carry a full sized steel gun, why not make it a hi- cap?" question, the answer gets a little more involved. Another facet of shootability, might better be termed shoot- ability. I've got many thousands of rounds through 1911s in competition, but I've never shot a hi- cap that much. The one time I borrowed my dad's G17 with 23 rd mags, and shot Limited Minor with it, well, it was boring.
I began my shooting career in SASS, and got used to the "action" element, transitioning guns, reloading, etc. Single Stack is similar in "action content," as about every time you move your feet, you're jamming a mag. (Revolver is the same, only more so.)
Transition to Limited, where you're "just shooting," and, well, I just never got interested.
Long story short, I carry a low cap platform because that's what I've got a ton of experience with in competition. And that experience comes because I think those platforms are "cool," or "fun," in part because they are low cap. And yes, I'm aware that the choice is sub optimal, and am not untroubled by that knowledge, but I make the choice, anyhow.
Though, it should be noted, I never took that reasoning to its ultimate logical absurdity: I never picked a Peacemaker or Vaquero for CCW, even though I have even more experience with them. (Well, there was this one time I carried a Super Blackhawk, but that was poor planning, not a reasoned decision.)
GBExpat
Member
Day-um! Niiiiiice! 
First I've never understood why you buy a SP101 and put those gigantic Hogues on it.
Second show me a 10 shot auto that's under a pound loaded.
The SP101 is not my gun. The Hogue grip is to allow somebody with hand problems to have better control and even shoot mild 357 loads for a short time. I don't have any examples of a light weight semi autos but a 43x should weigh about 21oz with 5 rounds and 23.07 with 10 rounds according to Glock.
I see your point but that weight difference doesn't offset 5 or 6 rounds for me.
WrongHanded
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I know it wasn't my post you were quoting when you asked this, but...
The Hogue grip on my SP101 is so I can hold the thing. The standard grips don't work for me. The Hogue let's me get hold of the gun quick, and shoot max charge .357 loads without having to readjust the gun in my hand between shots.
IME it is what is not being said / asked that is relevant in this type of discussion.
Often those advocating small pistols (revolvers) with minimal capacity are not stating that they either can't or won't dress around something bigger.
They limit themself to a pocket gun because of tucked-in shirt, two versions of that:
One- required for work, this is understandable, I was subject to work attire before and a pocket gun was the best I could do.
Two- tuck shirt when they don't have to, think untucked looks sloppy, this may be the reason they defend low capacity and they are not saying it.
Those who think untucked looks sloppy (tuck when they don't have to) are not likely to change and will post rationalizations as why their pocket gun is sufficient.
They may not (likely not) admit (without being asked) that they are intentionally limiting their carry with their attire.
Often those advocating small pistols (revolvers) with minimal capacity are not stating that they either can't or won't dress around something bigger.
They limit themself to a pocket gun because of tucked-in shirt, two versions of that:
One- required for work, this is understandable, I was subject to work attire before and a pocket gun was the best I could do.
Two- tuck shirt when they don't have to, think untucked looks sloppy, this may be the reason they defend low capacity and they are not saying it.
Those who think untucked looks sloppy (tuck when they don't have to) are not likely to change and will post rationalizations as why their pocket gun is sufficient.
They may not (likely not) admit (without being asked) that they are intentionally limiting their carry with their attire.
GEM has already posted this but I have to say it again in a shorter post:
Arguing for a low round count could inadvertently contribute to everyone being restricted to a low round count.
Bloombergs trolls and unhinged activists read our posts and will latch on tightly to anybody who says 5 rounds are plenty.
And yet the bad guy with his illegal (hypothetically in the future) 33 round magazine will still not follow the law and you will be forced to carry 5 rounds, or 3, or something smaller than 9mm because Biden says it's too much.
Most here say it's the individuals choice, and it is, but more is almost always better and we should never be restricted to any round limit just because an activist pulls a number out of his arse. Don't give out of touch activist ammo. More is better 99% of the time and that's why they want to take it away from you.
Arguing for a low round count could inadvertently contribute to everyone being restricted to a low round count.
Bloombergs trolls and unhinged activists read our posts and will latch on tightly to anybody who says 5 rounds are plenty.
And yet the bad guy with his illegal (hypothetically in the future) 33 round magazine will still not follow the law and you will be forced to carry 5 rounds, or 3, or something smaller than 9mm because Biden says it's too much.
Most here say it's the individuals choice, and it is, but more is almost always better and we should never be restricted to any round limit just because an activist pulls a number out of his arse. Don't give out of touch activist ammo. More is better 99% of the time and that's why they want to take it away from you.
Charlie Martinez
Member
The only CC gun I own has a 5-shot max capacity
I feel quite safe with it BUT it would be even better if it had more firepower
I feel quite safe with it BUT it would be even better if it had more firepower
Armored farmer
Member
There are carry options available for whatever clothing style you choose. I have tuckable holsters for almost all of my carry guns, because I prefer tucked shirts. Old school, I guess.
I voted high cap in the poll because if my limited knowledge of combative pistol tactics. Failure drills, concentrated fire drills, multiple target drills. They all eat up the ammo.
Based on four rounds per engagement, a revolver is a single engagement weapon. A 1911, or low cap auto, is a two engagement, and a high cap (12 or more) is considered a 3 engagement gun. [I'm not sure I completely agree with not giving a bit of extra credit to the .45 over a 9mm]
I know that with my hi-cap 9mm, I was able to hold my own in timed drills against a fellow student who had received training from a famous "ranch" pistol school. The fact that he had to perform a reload when I didnt, clearly gave me the advantage...(against paper targets).
Let's not forget that current tactics and training are directed towards hi-cap 9s.
Military use them, LE use them, in part because of cost of ammo and the gun itself. The 9 has become accepted.
I voted high cap in the poll because if my limited knowledge of combative pistol tactics. Failure drills, concentrated fire drills, multiple target drills. They all eat up the ammo.
Based on four rounds per engagement, a revolver is a single engagement weapon. A 1911, or low cap auto, is a two engagement, and a high cap (12 or more) is considered a 3 engagement gun. [I'm not sure I completely agree with not giving a bit of extra credit to the .45 over a 9mm]
I know that with my hi-cap 9mm, I was able to hold my own in timed drills against a fellow student who had received training from a famous "ranch" pistol school. The fact that he had to perform a reload when I didnt, clearly gave me the advantage...(against paper targets).
Let's not forget that current tactics and training are directed towards hi-cap 9s.
Military use them, LE use them, in part because of cost of ammo and the gun itself. The 9 has become accepted.
I don't really agree with that.
A five shot revolver may prove inadequate for a single "engagement", and so might a 1911.
mcb
Member
Several of the guys in that group of friends I competed and trained with were in their 60's and one in his early 70's. Were they the fastest, nope, but most weekends they beat the young guys that did not practice at all. If you're still capable enough to shoot you can still practice all the other skills. Slow skills are better than no skills.
For me the idea of training to reload in a self-defense gun fight is more about a complete proficiency with my carry gun and the will to survive than any realistic statistical likelihood I will need to. Do we even have a documented case of a justifiable self-defense shooting that a reload made the difference? I don't expect to ever use my CCW but if I do I will be able to use it fully and as a second-nature skill not something I have to expend valuable mental capacity on.
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WisBorn
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