dubbleA
Member
vaupet said:
Why not? I used to with my #1 in 416 Rigby.
I have moved up to a 50 BMG due to better ballistics for a big bore.
For the stray elephant roaming the mtns of NC...
- Thread starter Barrett93
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Why not? I used to with my #1 in 416 Rigby.
I have moved up to a 50 BMG due to better ballistics for a big bore.
tark
Member
200 Apples, nice pic of the 600 NE. I read your link and they show that same pic, labeling it as a 600 Nitro Express.
The cartridge in that pic ain't no 600 Nitro Express! It looks more like a 4 bore. I became suspicious when I say that lead bullet, 600s were never loaded with lead bullets. I was even more attracted to the size of the round compared to the size of the hand that is holding it. Perhaps the person is a dwarf, but the average thumb of the average hand is slightly larger than a 600 bullet. the thumb in the pic is nowhere as large as that lead bullet. An average index finger is about 3' long, the length of a 600 case. The case in that pic is at least 4' long, which is about average for a 4 bore.
Yes, I have fired 4 and 8 bore rifles. The 4 bore I fired had a 4' case, a 2000 gr bullet and a 385 grain powder charge. When I hear people talk about the "push" of the old black powder rounds, I just smile and turn away. "Savage" is more like it. The 4 bore cannot be fired from the bench, it will knock you off the chair.
Someday I intend to get a 458, just because I have always wanted an Elephant gun. For no good reason. And that is reason enough.
The cartridge in that pic ain't no 600 Nitro Express! It looks more like a 4 bore. I became suspicious when I say that lead bullet, 600s were never loaded with lead bullets. I was even more attracted to the size of the round compared to the size of the hand that is holding it. Perhaps the person is a dwarf, but the average thumb of the average hand is slightly larger than a 600 bullet. the thumb in the pic is nowhere as large as that lead bullet. An average index finger is about 3' long, the length of a 600 case. The case in that pic is at least 4' long, which is about average for a 4 bore.
Yes, I have fired 4 and 8 bore rifles. The 4 bore I fired had a 4' case, a 2000 gr bullet and a 385 grain powder charge. When I hear people talk about the "push" of the old black powder rounds, I just smile and turn away. "Savage" is more like it. The 4 bore cannot be fired from the bench, it will knock you off the chair.
Someday I intend to get a 458, just because I have always wanted an Elephant gun. For no good reason. And that is reason enough.
Reloadron
Contributing Member
One sweet rifle. I am leaving for your beautiful state on Friday, having friends in the Winston Salem area. I hope to get up to Boone while down there. If I see any elephants around Boone or in the Smokey Mountains area I'll post back their location for you. 
Ron
Ron
200Apples
Mojave Lever Crew
.
You know something, tark? I had a gut feeling that that massive cartridge was a lil' TOO large to be a 600 NE. Hahaha... but I posted it anyway. Like I said earlier, sometimes I can't help myself. Dagnabbit! I should've double-checked that image against another. I appreciate your heads up!
You know something, tark? I had a gut feeling that that massive cartridge was a lil' TOO large to be a 600 NE. Hahaha... but I posted it anyway. Like I said earlier, sometimes I can't help myself. Dagnabbit! I should've double-checked that image against another. I appreciate your heads up!
200Apples
Mojave Lever Crew
.
Cheezish. H. Cristo. The .458 must seem child's play in comparison.
Cheezish. H. Cristo. The .458 must seem child's play in comparison.
jim in Anchorage
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Liberty1776
Member
I have some 500 gr. cast loads at 45-70 velocity for my Interarms Mk X in .458. Works super on deer and can't wait to try it on hogs...
Lj1941
Member
Beautiful rifle. No other excuse needed.
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The key to handling a big bore is a firm forearm grip. Death grip in the front and about a 20% grip on the rear. do not pinch the forearm with your fingers grab it with your whole hand like you are giving a firm hand shake. Rinse repeat have fun!
WRONG...
CORRECT....
Note;
Don't be afraid to let your fingers touch the metal of the barrel that is not a problem in fact it's normal with splinter ended double or English stalking pattern rifle.
WRONG...
CORRECT....
Note;
Don't be afraid to let your fingers touch the metal of the barrel that is not a problem in fact it's normal with splinter ended double or English stalking pattern rifle.
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vaupet
Member
@dubbleA
it is not so much about recoil but it is about a light hunting rifle barrel quickly overheating in these big bores (barrel life and accuracy)
A typical big bore target shoot for me is about 20 shots in under 15'
even my marlin 336 (30-30) gets 'pretty darn hot' that way, and i don't want to touch the barrel of my interarms mark X in 270 win .
it is not so much about recoil but it is about a light hunting rifle barrel quickly overheating in these big bores (barrel life and accuracy)
A typical big bore target shoot for me is about 20 shots in under 15'
even my marlin 336 (30-30) gets 'pretty darn hot' that way, and i don't want to touch the barrel of my interarms mark X in 270 win .
tark
Member
Jim, that's a beautiful 4 bore. Holland and Holland perhaps? The 0ne I fired was a Thomas Bland & Son single barrel that weighed 18 pounds, if I remember correctly.
Someone once calculated the recoil of various hard kickers, don't remember who, but I remember the numbers.
12 GA. 3" Magnum , turkey load. ---------50 Ft. lbs. recoil
.458 magnum 500 gr solid 9 lb rifle-------70 " " "
460 Weatherby Mag. in Mk. V rifle--------120 " " "
8 bore 1600 gr bullet 240 Gr FG 16 lb gun 180 " " "
4 bore 2000 gr, 18 lb gun-------------------220 " " "
Or as close as I can remember. What was interesting was the fact that the Weatherby was far and away the most powerful of the group The large bores only churn up around 1400- 1500 FPS. Which comes up about even with the 458 for Ft. lbs. of energy.
But I am rambling off topic again....
I saw a nice #1 in 404 at a Scheels store last year and I didn't buy it because of the difficulty in finding ammo. I still have a stone age mindset....I still sometimes fail to remember that you can find just about ANYTHING on the net! I'm still kicking myself for letting that one slip through my fingers.
Someone once calculated the recoil of various hard kickers, don't remember who, but I remember the numbers.
12 GA. 3" Magnum , turkey load. ---------50 Ft. lbs. recoil
.458 magnum 500 gr solid 9 lb rifle-------70 " " "
460 Weatherby Mag. in Mk. V rifle--------120 " " "
8 bore 1600 gr bullet 240 Gr FG 16 lb gun 180 " " "
4 bore 2000 gr, 18 lb gun-------------------220 " " "
Or as close as I can remember. What was interesting was the fact that the Weatherby was far and away the most powerful of the group The large bores only churn up around 1400- 1500 FPS. Which comes up about even with the 458 for Ft. lbs. of energy.
But I am rambling off topic again....
I saw a nice #1 in 404 at a Scheels store last year and I didn't buy it because of the difficulty in finding ammo. I still have a stone age mindset....I still sometimes fail to remember that you can find just about ANYTHING on the net! I'm still kicking myself for letting that one slip through my fingers.
Cocked & Locked
Member
Oh yeh, Midway has two options currently in stock. Pricey of course but available. Hornady or Norma.
http://www.midwayusa.com/404-jeffery/br?cid=10604
http://www.midwayusa.com/404-jeffery/br?cid=10604
jim in Anchorage
Member
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Tark-
The 4 bore is a Thomas Bland. Not mine though. It's owned by a fellow that lives about 60 miles north of me in Willow AK. He is a huge double fan.
Check out his website-http://www.calpappas.com/index.html
The 4 bore is a Thomas Bland. Not mine though. It's owned by a fellow that lives about 60 miles north of me in Willow AK. He is a huge double fan.
Check out his website-http://www.calpappas.com/index.html
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jim in Anchorage
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I don't know but I've seen his guns at the range and it's always a kick to see people flying backward when they shoot them. I pass and plink with my little .375.Jim,
Is it that he's a huge fan of doubles or a fan of huge doubles... or... possibly both?
__________________
GooseGestapo
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Barrett93;
I see some cast bullets and Trailboss or Unique in your future!
I've shot two different.458's, and a .470NE. Own a .375Ruger.
Recoil is pretty much as you described.
The first one was a MkX Mauser "Whitworth" a local doctor was sighting in at state range on WMA prior to trip to Africa. I was practicing for PPC Shotgun match testing slugs through my Rem. 870 w/20" RS bbl. Recoil from shotgun with 1 oz. slugs was worse than his 510gr Hornady's loaded to 2,050fps as chrono'd on my chrono.
My Marlin M1895 GuideGun with 405gr cast over a compressed load of H4895 is worse! It weighs ~7lb vs. the Whitworth at 10.5. As too is the Savage M110 in .300RUM with the original 1/2" hard rubber pad. With a 1.25" "Kickeze" pad (stock cut to 13" pull w/pad), and a bag of rice in hollow of butt stock, it's tamed down a bit. However, every time I've shot game with it, it's given me a Weatherby "hickey"! Draws blood on both ends, even with a padded scope objective. But that's the price of burning 101gr of Retumbo driving a 180gr bullet 3,350 fps.
I regularly shoot 255gr cast from my .375Ruger over 10gr of Unique. Bullet slapping berm is louder than the rifle!
I see some cast bullets and Trailboss or Unique in your future!
I've shot two different.458's, and a .470NE. Own a .375Ruger.
Recoil is pretty much as you described.
The first one was a MkX Mauser "Whitworth" a local doctor was sighting in at state range on WMA prior to trip to Africa. I was practicing for PPC Shotgun match testing slugs through my Rem. 870 w/20" RS bbl. Recoil from shotgun with 1 oz. slugs was worse than his 510gr Hornady's loaded to 2,050fps as chrono'd on my chrono.
My Marlin M1895 GuideGun with 405gr cast over a compressed load of H4895 is worse! It weighs ~7lb vs. the Whitworth at 10.5. As too is the Savage M110 in .300RUM with the original 1/2" hard rubber pad. With a 1.25" "Kickeze" pad (stock cut to 13" pull w/pad), and a bag of rice in hollow of butt stock, it's tamed down a bit. However, every time I've shot game with it, it's given me a Weatherby "hickey"! Draws blood on both ends, even with a padded scope objective. But that's the price of burning 101gr of Retumbo driving a 180gr bullet 3,350 fps.
I regularly shoot 255gr cast from my .375Ruger over 10gr of Unique. Bullet slapping berm is louder than the rifle!
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Archie
Member
For a reloader, a .458 Winchester can be loaded down to .45 ACP ballistics, should that be desired. Probably a better route is to develop a load equivalent to .45-70 for normal shooting and North American game.
At my age, I doubt I'll ever leave the Continental United States to hunt, but at one time Alaska was a possibility. A more or less full bore .458 Winchester would be 'suitable' for much of the dangerous game there.
I currently have a Ruger No. 1 in .303 British. I can't think of much anything in the Continental U. S. which would withstand a proper delivered round from that. (215 grain bullet at 2200 fps.) Of course, I do have a .35 Whelen (1917 action) should I think differently.
At my age, I doubt I'll ever leave the Continental United States to hunt, but at one time Alaska was a possibility. A more or less full bore .458 Winchester would be 'suitable' for much of the dangerous game there.
I currently have a Ruger No. 1 in .303 British. I can't think of much anything in the Continental U. S. which would withstand a proper delivered round from that. (215 grain bullet at 2200 fps.) Of course, I do have a .35 Whelen (1917 action) should I think differently.
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