How do you handle people who stare you down?

[CoRoMo]

Maybe I'm weak or meek (they aren't the same), but I seem to be too accommodating when I'm in public. I can't say with certainty what I would have done in this situation, because it depends on the mood I find myself in, but I'm afraid that I would have tried to be cordial and a cooperative of his behavior. I wish that weren't the case. I'd hope that I would stare right back through my sunglasses at him with a highway patrolman stare.

 

[ShaiVong]

So I'm driving into the gas station next to my house, and this skinny out of place dude is standing pumping gas, carrying a gun on his hip, giving me the stink eye! I've never seen him around before, and I could tell that Jesus, the gas station owner, was nervous and didn't know what was up either. Not many people walk around with guns on their hips in our neighborhood. I couldn't tell if he was a cop or what.

I was a little angry because he was right by my home scaring the locals, so I gave him some crap. I figured, he's pumping gas and he's not wearing a mask, so he must not be robbing the place. Must be a cop or some punk trying to intimidate us. I didn't want bullets to start flying with people around, so after some verbal exchanges, I just took off.

 

[whalerman]

You have to do everything you can to make sure the situation does not escalate. That's just the way it is. Snappy responses are what we would all like to make, but it just isn't the way to go. Sparring, mentally or otherwise, with a dope, isn't a good idea. You have to walk away from people like that.

 

[JERRY]

concealed carry has its merits, doesn't it?

 

[PlateStacker]

????

See this and heed it.

If you do anything to provoke the man and things go downhill, you will be in a world of hurt.

Just because you'd be too scared to say anything back to some random nobody who is trying you, doesn't mean we all agree with you. You shoulden't go around deleting anyones opinion that doesn't agree with you! Wow..

btw: that post was more of a joke than anything, since you couldn't tell...

 

[Mike1234567]

Good Lord, I've been seeing an awful lot of petty arguing and disrespect for others lately on this forum. I've erred from time-to-time when something frustrates me but I try to catch and correct my rudeness. I could never moderate on any forum... I just don't have the patience for it.

 

[ForumSurfer]

None of the E's in ADEE stand for "Escalate."

I'd have to agree.

Many of us have been in circumstances where "chest thumping" may have felt like the right thing to do. But if the guy isn't threatening you verbally or physically, he can pretty much say anything he wants. I can, too...but I shouldn't knowingly escalate a situation where I know there is at least one firearm involved; verbally nor physically. It stinks sometimes, but it is what it is.

 

[MtnCreek]

PlateStacker: Please see below.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=561603

 

[Sam1911]

You shoulden't go around deleting anyones opinion that doesn't agree with you! Wow..

btw: that post was more of a joke than anything, since you couldn't tell...

PlateStacker, Kleanbore didn't delete your post, I did. And I did so because penis jokes and "your momma" crap is completely out of line for what we do here at THR, and especially what we do here in S&T.

Your comment was inappropriate both for this forum and as a serious, useful answer to the situation under discussion.

Normally such things are handled out of the public view so as not to call out and embarass an individual member for a mistake, but perhaps responding openly is instructive about how this forum works.

 

[Kleanbore]

Posted by PlateStacker: Just because you'd be too scared to say anything back to some random nobody who is trying you, doesn't mean we all agree with you.

It isn't a matter of being "scared".

It is a matter of trying to avoid a confrontation, and if that fails, trying to avoid negating a defense of justification.

You may not agree, but you do need to understand that the case law and the attendant jury instructions in almost all jurisdictions do agree.

You shoulden't go around deleting anyones opinion that doesn't agree with you! Wow...

btw: that post was more of a joke than anything, since you couldn't tell.

Perhaps you have by now figured out from the post to which MtnCreek was so kind as to provide a link just why Sam deleted your post.

 

[ForumSurfer]

Just because you'd be too scared to say anything back to some random nobody who is trying you, doesn't mean we all agree with you.

Just because you say something, doesn't make you any more of a man or even mean you aren't "scared." I have nothing to prove.

 

[cacoltguy]

I get stared down from time to time. My response is to stare back dead in their eye to the point where they feel uncomfortable or threatened and then give them a direct "good morning" or "good afternoon." For whatever reason this usually seems to mentally disarm them. I guess it lets them know you aren't about to let someone push you around but at the same time you are respectful. At the very least I've never had anyone mouth off to me after this and on more than a few occasions I've received a respectful response back. Getting into an unnecessary battle of verbal insults while you are carrying a weapon is a good way to wind up defending yourself in a court of law.

 

[JustinJ]

So I'm at the gas station with my gf, and this fat Mexican "kid" drives around us and gives me the evil eye like he's some bad bandito. I'm open carrying, and he didn't see it until he got out of the car to pump gas.

He comments on my gun saying something like 'you got that strap'. My response was "what about it?". He goes, "it makes you feel big huh?"

vs

So I'm driving into the gas station next to my house, and this skinny out of place dude is standing pumping gas, carrying a gun on his hip, giving me the stink eye! I've never seen him around before, and I could tell that Jesus, the gas station owner, was nervous and didn't know what was up either. Not many people walk around with guns on their hips in our neighborhood. I couldn't tell if he was a cop or what.

I was a little angry because he was right by my home scaring the locals, so I gave him some crap.

Ya'll don't live in the same town do you?

On a serious note, assuming my state ever gets open carry, i would avoid doing so without a certain type of attire. We have many plains clothes LE that carry on the hip so others assuming you may be such if carrying open could certainly deter such confrontations. Obviously I am not implying one should impersonate a LE officer but dress that is neat and professional looking is not a bad idea. In addition, it sets others at ease and prevents certain negative assumptions by others about legal carry.

 

[Sam1911]

Just because you say something, doesn't make you any more of a man or even mean you aren't "scared." I have nothing to prove.

It really goes even deeper than that. Someone goading you into escalating a negative enounter is potentially leading you down a path to utter ruin.

Sure, he's in the wrong. Sure, your gut is telling you to back him down with a bit of bluster of your own. Sure, you're confident in your ability to "mix it up" with him, or even -- hey, you've got a gun, right? -- even to end him if he tries to get rough. It's a "man's" response, certainly. We're hard-wired to work that way. Stand up for yourself -- don't be a coward -- the old John Wayne, "I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted" flack.

Unfortunately, it's all a trap. His mouth and your dumb insticts may get you beat up. His mouth and your dumb instincts may get you killed. His mouth and your dumb instincts may land you in the back of a squad car heading to court to face assault or manslaughter charges -- like the student of Tom Givens I mentioned above. "He started it!" is a lousy legal argument when your defense case is not accepted because you're considered a mutual combatant partially to blame for the violent encounter.

"Yeah, I'm in prison, lost my job, my house, my marriage, and my ability to ever own a gun again, just because a bunch of dumb jurors were too STUPID to see that I was obviously just standing up for myself... It's all that other guy's fault!"

So even though you were the badder man, even though he lost, you let him lead you down a road with nothing but terrible dead ends. If you're not "scared" of that, you're a fool. The other guy may be a prime jerk, but giving him back what he's giving you is letting him trick you into a deadly mistake. Just because he might not win doesn't mean you won't LOSE.

 

[Strykervet]

When they mushmouth, I usually just stand in awe at our education system. By the time I can adequately respond, they are usually long gone.

So in essence, I guess I just ignore them. Mommy said not to talk to strangers anyway, and she's a smart worldwise lady.

I like how Clint Eastwood deals with that kind in Gran Torino though, just as a side note.

You don't really need to say anything though. If everyone carried, and everyone ignored that kind of attitude, he'd walk around alone begging to be accepted. Until that happens though, the best you can hope for is that he is more afraid of you than you are him --which it appears is so.

Be careful when dealing with trash. Not only will you get stink on you, but they also have a bad habit of pushing the wrong people. Chances are you say something, he spouts off and gets physical, you pull, then he dares you. Better you'd said nothing at all if it comes to that.

 

[Kleanbore]

While the OP did refer to someone who was carrying openly, that is not the real subject here.

The real subject has to do with how to conduct oneself in the kind of encounter that involves an exchange of unpleasant words or glances.

Whether one or both of the participants were carrying concealed or openly or not at all, and whether the comment in question had to do with carrying a firearm or wearing a Hard Rock Cafe T-shirt or one's driving a truck with a raised chassis, the question is about how to conduct oneself.

It has been answered here and in two other threads, but it seems that a few have either not read the answer or do not understand it. Here it is again, originally posted by Lee Lapin:

The 'default setting' for ST&T, the 'school solution' here, is ADEE.

What does ADEE mean?

AVOID

DE-ESCALATE/DISENGAGE

ESCAPE

EVADE

Our aim after all is to AVOID trouble whenever avoidance is possible, to DE-ESCALATE any confrontation that arises in spite of our best efforts, to DISENGAGE from the source of the confrontation, to ESCAPE the area, and EVADE being contacted again by the source of the confrontation.

IF WE CAN. ADEE isn't always possible. But when there are options available to us in dealing with a situation where interpersonal conflict is a possibility, be the source of that conflict an individual or a group, ADEE should be what we seek to do reflexively.

Anything else is likely to be defined as 'looking for trouble.' Like it or not, the accepted standard of conduct here in ST&T, our "rules of engagement" if you prefer that term, is ADEE.

If you dislike this concept, have a sit-down with your attorney and talk it over with him or her. See what their take on the concept is. Don't take my word for it, go talk to your attorney.

I hope this helps., but it occurs to me that some of our newer members who do not yet have a good understanding of what may be involved in a defense of justification after having used, or maybe even after having only drawn, a firearm may not fully comprehend why it is essential that they follow that philosophy. Fortunately, Sam has explained it very clearly in practical terms:

Someone goading you into escalating a negative enounter is potentially leading you down a path to utter ruin.

Sure, he's in the wrong. Sure, your gut is telling you to back him down with a bit of bluster of your own. Sure, you're confident in your ability to "mix it up" with him, or even -- hey, you've got a gun, right? -- even to end him if he tries to get rough. It's a "man's" response, certainly. We're hard-wired to work that way. Stand up for yourself -- don't be a coward -- the old John Wayne, "I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted" flack.

Unfortunately, it's all a trap. His mouth and your dumb insticts may get you beat up. His mouth and your dumb instincts may get you killed. His mouth and your dumb instincts may land you in the back of a squad car heading to court to face assault or manslaughter charges -- like the student of Tom Givens I mentioned above. "He started it!" is a lousy legal argument when your defense case is not accepted because you're considered a mutual combatant partially to blame for the violent encounter.

So even though you were the badder man, even though he lost, you let him lead you down a road with nothing but terrible dead ends. If you're not "scared" of that, you're a fool.

The other guy may be a prime jerk, but giving him back what he's giving you is letting him trick you into a deadly mistake. Just because he might not win doesn't mean you won't LOSE.

 

[heeler]

There are plenty of bad dudes near where I live and I for one will make eye contact with them to let them know I am aware of them but I am certainly not going to get into a stare down with them.
Why??
I certainly dont have to prove any thing with them or try to out macho them.
And since I am armed I view that in a similiar vane like the potus with the red button at hand.
In other words you push that red button as the very,very last resort for your very survival.

Same here to Mike's post #32.

 

[ForumSurfer]

Unfortunately, it's all a trap. His mouth and your dumb insticts may get you beat up. His mouth and your dumb instincts may get you killed. His mouth and your dumb instincts may land you in the back of a squad car heading to court to face assault or manslaughter charges -- like the student of Tom Givens I mentioned above. "He started it!" is a lousy legal argument when your defense case is not accepted because you're considered a mutual combatant partially to blame for the violent encounter.

So even though you were the badder man, even though he lost, you let him lead you down a road with nothing but terrible dead ends. If you're not "scared" of that, you're a fool.

The other guy may be a prime jerk, but giving him back what he's giving you is letting him trick you into a deadly mistake. Just because he might not win doesn't mean you won't LOSE.

Yep. Sometimes it takes an awful lot of courage and intestinal fortitude to swallow your pride and make the better choice.

Simply change the story and have said person stare down your significant other and say something offensive, possibly vulgar yet non threatening to your significant other and you can see how situations like this can escalate fast. Did we start it? No, not exactly...but it doesn't matter because we contributed to escalating the situation which led to whatever outcome happens. There's a big difference between having a DA not prosecuting you after ruling a homicide as a justifiable self defense shooting and having that same DA prosecuting you for manslaughter because you were too stubborn to walk away (deescalate) from a verbal argument that progressed towards a fight that progressed toward a shooting.

 

[conw]

You need a better plan to de-escalate, and more importantly disengage with, people who verbally engage you when you have your 'strap.'

Maybe that kid wouldn't have tried to take it, but he darn sure attracted attention to you, and got inside your OODA loop. You were working with a task load and probably fixated on that kid, and what to do about him. Any number of things could have happened; someone who was with you could have gotten victimized, you could have been picked out by a harder guy who might be more than a match, etc.

People can do whatever they want as far as open carrying, but there are plenty of people who are hardened to the point they don't fear guns much, and certainly won't be afraid of you because you have one...how 'bout if the "punk's" friend walked up behind you? You were probably fully focused on the "punk" and wouldn't/couldn't have responded properly.

 

[chrt396]

If a man were smart..he wouldn't reciprocate a stare down with ANYONE! That's like asking for it. I act like I'm not even paying attention..yet I am. There is no sense in getting into a testosterone war. Carrying seems to boost ones self confidence a little too much at times and alters our perceived..not actual, toughness. I don't need to agitate one young guy that may bring all of his home boys back to whoop my butt! I'm getting too old to play mental games which get you physically hurt! I avoid what I can and deal with the rest. So far I've been pretty lucky..but that can change with just one egotistical mistake.

 

[Mike1234567]

Do a youtube search for, "Man kills two Policemen on Nicaragua".

Some people have no fear what-so-ever.

 

[ForumSurfer]

If a man were smart..he wouldn't reciprocate a stare down with ANYONE!

I agree with this. I tend to make eye contact and then speak or nod. After that, I'll observe their actions. Maybe we'll make eye contact again or maybe not. I've learned from some good sources that a good percentage of guys who are good at being bad react almost instinctively to being stared down.

 

[230therapy]

I don't say anything--verbally. I just get ready for anything. Sometimes I start moving laterally (disrupts their plan for you in that location). Other times I'll just look at them and lower my chin. Either way, I'll cock one foot so I can move rapidly. These body signals indicate readiness for a fight. Many bad guys and bullies want easy prey and looking ready for the fight makes them look elsewhere.

 

[Owen Sparks]

He comments on my gun saying something like 'you got that strap'. My response was "what about it?". He goes, "it makes you feel big huh?"

Nope, it just makes you seem a whole lot smaller.

 

[Mike1234567]

I don't need to "posture" to know I'm a man.