Those BRNO 7.5 FK Czech guns are offered in polymer now so the price has come down. They come with a 10mm/40 conversion as well included and there are 9mm conversions out there seperately so you have a lot of wiggle room with shooting costs. Last I looked they were in the $1,600-1,700 range instead of the originals that were maybe $8,000. Looks fantastic. Not sure I can resist much longer but I am trying.
Is Federal’s New 30 Super Carry a 32 ACP Magnum?
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Those BRNO 7.5 FK Czech guns are offered in polymer now so the price has come down. They come with a 10mm/40 conversion as well included and there are 9mm conversions out there seperately so you have a lot of wiggle room with shooting costs. Last I looked they were in the $1,600-1,700 range instead of the originals that were maybe $8,000. Looks fantastic. Not sure I can resist much longer but I am trying.
Hypothetically yes, but I don't think that is going to happen because I've shot 9mm out of the Rohrbaugh R9 and I've shot 380 out of the almost identical RM380.
If the only thing a buyer does is listen to Federal's schpeel about "bridging the 380 gap" and they've never shot 380 ACP and maybe they won't know what they're buying, but as soon as most people shoot 30 SC out of a small gun, they'll remember why they liked 380 ACP.
C-grunt
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Big difference between shooting an armed combatant and people packed in an assembly area like sardines.
When you are in a gunfight with a guy on a two day meth binge or a true believer on khat, the idea turns more towards stopping the threat immediately.
And I have personally seen both types refuse to go down even with multiple holes in them.
mcb
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I suspect it's going to be very similar to comparing 9x19mm +P to 357 Magnum just using .312 diameter bullets instead of .355/.357.
danez71
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I don't see anything taking over 9mm in my lifetime unless something revolutionary comes alone.
I see this as more of a threat to .380 than 9mm for carry if it lasts at least at least a couple years for new guns that are designed around it to come to market.
I've seen enough comments on tiny 380s to cause me to think maybe we've about hit the peak of size/recoil for that market to grow beyond/faster the current pace.
But regardless of whether or not we've reach that 380 size/recoil peak...
Guns designed around it can be a little trimmer than 9mm with decidedly more oomph than 380 with the same capacity or a little more than either.
Gotta keep in mind that is called .30 Super Carry; not Super Competition; not Super Combat.
The choice of name wasn't an accident.
I see this as more of a threat to .380 than 9mm for carry if it lasts at least at least a couple years for new guns that are designed around it to come to market.
I've seen enough comments on tiny 380s to cause me to think maybe we've about hit the peak of size/recoil for that market to grow beyond/faster the current pace.
But regardless of whether or not we've reach that 380 size/recoil peak...
Guns designed around it can be a little trimmer than 9mm with decidedly more oomph than 380 with the same capacity or a little more than either.
Gotta keep in mind that is called .30 Super Carry; not Super Competition; not Super Combat.
The choice of name wasn't an accident.
Ethan Verity
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With ballistics closer to 9mm than 380, and a chamber pressure of 50k PSI, I can't see these ever working in micro pocket pistols like the Ruger LCP. THAT is where the 380 shines, and will continue to shine. 30SC can't fill the 380 role, it'll be limited to 9mm size frames. (The Shield EZ is offered in 380, but it's a big gun and is also available in 9mm... so still a 9mm size gun there)
WrongHanded
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Good points. Perhaps we will see some redesigns specifically for this cartridge, and perhaps not. From my perspective, almost all the new .380 only pistols are too small anyway. The G42 is where I drew the line. But I realize others feel differently.
The Glockodile
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I have NO interest in a double stack 30 super carry!
BUT make a single stack LCP sized weapon in 30 Super Carry and I will probably buy two!
Round count is quite low on my priority list, concealability and power are my two biggest concerns. A 7 round straight stack LCP in 30 Super Carry with the same width and over al size and close to the same weight is the sweet spot for me!
A S&W shield or a mini 1911 in .30 Super Carry are guns that have absolutely no point for me!
If they can't make a carry piece smaller than my DB9 in 30 super carry then I will just carry my DB9! Larger bullet diameter at the same or slightly higher power does have definitely advantages.
BUT make a single stack LCP sized weapon in 30 Super Carry and I will probably buy two!
Round count is quite low on my priority list, concealability and power are my two biggest concerns. A 7 round straight stack LCP in 30 Super Carry with the same width and over al size and close to the same weight is the sweet spot for me!
A S&W shield or a mini 1911 in .30 Super Carry are guns that have absolutely no point for me!
If they can't make a carry piece smaller than my DB9 in 30 super carry then I will just carry my DB9! Larger bullet diameter at the same or slightly higher power does have definitely advantages.
CapnMac
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Hmmm. Now, maybe if it were more of an 8x25 instead of 8x20. Of course, that's kind of 30carb Lite (8x31)
At least as an AutoMag loading no one would question whether it could stand up to 50K chamber pressure.
And, while on this, how long before someone suggests a 30sc magnum, say 8x22?
I like it. Might turn a 1911 38super into a 32 Automag with very little effort. Magazine wouldnt even need a spacer just the ribs and a feedlip adjustment. Be like a mini Coonan. Do a double stack and it would probably hold 22 rounds or so and still have that nice thin 1911 feel.
Mosin77
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Are there engineering reasons why a .30SC could not be used in a Keltec P32/Ruger LCP size gun?
I love my Keltec P3AT (the original LCP) but I always shied away from the even smaller P32 because I was happy enough with the P3AT size, and going down to .32acp just seemed like an unnecessary compromise. But if they could make that gun (or it’s slightly larger .380 brother) shoot something hotter, and maybe hold an extra round….. that wouldn’t be a bad deal at all.
I love my Keltec P3AT (the original LCP) but I always shied away from the even smaller P32 because I was happy enough with the P3AT size, and going down to .32acp just seemed like an unnecessary compromise. But if they could make that gun (or it’s slightly larger .380 brother) shoot something hotter, and maybe hold an extra round….. that wouldn’t be a bad deal at all.
Yes there are several reasons that have already been mentioned. One being that the 30SC runs at a higher pressure than 32ACP, 380, and 9mm. Another reason is the overall length of the 30SC round, it is the same as 9mm.
Mosin77
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I understand the frame would need to be redesigned for the longer dimensions, but I don’t know whether the increased pressure would require extensive additional slide mass and bulk. The LCPs are locked-breech designs so a bit stronger than your typical blowback which would obviously not work with a 9mm style pistol. Regardless though, I’d guess even if it were possible, recoil from such a package would be …punishing. And if it were possible somebody would probably have already done it with 9mm.
I don’t keep up on these things but a decade ago the smallest 9 was the Kahr PM/CM9. So I’m assuming it’s probably not practicable for a gun with the same M.E., velocity, and length as 9mm to be much smaller, except maybe a touch thinner. Which kind of eliminates it from the “ultra concealable pocket pistol” category.
This round might really shine in a “high cap” P365-style gun, however. Whether there’s a market for that, I don’t know.
I have a Kel-Tec PF9 and a Sig P938. I can definitely tell the difference between he two when I shoot them. Even though there is only 2.6 ounces difference between the two (PF9 is lighter) the recoil is definitely more noticeable with the PF9. I personally would not want to shoot anything smaller or lighter in 9mm or 30SC. Even my light weight FEG PA63 in 9x18 has quite. bit of recoil. The PA63 is a close copy to the Walther PPK.
That's been my thought before this was even a thing. I'm sure several of the 9mm guys will now be all about "slightly bigger hole"
.455_Hunter
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Remember, bullet size doesn't matter above 9mm, but its absolutely vital below 9mm...
PA63 is a rough puppy with its aluminum frame and straight blowback. Grip shape doesnt help either. I still like mine though. 9x18 was fun to collect for a while. PF9 is underbuilt for 9mm IMO. It needs a steel subframe and a stonger slide. The thin grip does not help things on such a snappy pistol. There is a point where things get too thin. P11 is a soft shooter compared to the PF9. Part of that is the grip width. I get what Kelgren was trying to do but it was a step down from the p11. Double stack PF9 might be doable as might a double stack DB9. Chamber and barrel will be thicker... probably need to increase the lockup delay time to deal with that much preasure. Might be possible to squeeze 13-14 rounds in a double stack mag. P11 tops out at 12 in 9mm on a flush fit. It might be why we have not seen a revised P11 yet. I am sure Kelgren knew this 30 super was coming and he likes oddball cartridges. I might go for something like a 30super Revamped PF9 that holds 14 rounds in a flush fit and maybe 17rds with a +3 mag extension. Be a wicked little pocket gun.
I think its more about economics than anything. A lot of people went 9mm for cost and streamlining ammo reasons. This pretty much goes against all of that and give you less performance and versatility. Going to be a hard sell just to get a few more rounds in pistols that already have good capacity. Then you also have to take up a new unproven cartridge thats more expensive and harder to find....... Tough sell. Its kind of like trying to get everyone to switch away from 5.56 or 7.62x39 and pay more.......just because.
WrongHanded
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Maybe. But it's not stopped a lot of people then justifying their choice of 9mm as being "basically just as good" terminally as .40 and .45, and then "therefore better" because of the reduced recoil and higher capacity.
And the "just as good, and therefore better" mentality displayed over the 9mm is really why some of us think the introduction of 30SC, and the coming debates over it vs 9mm, will be (and already are) hilarious.
That was all just people trying to convince themselves to switch to 9mm. Anyone with half a brain knows 40/45 trumps 9mm performance wise. These debates happen all the time...22short vs 22lr in a revolver.... 22lr vs 22wmr, 32acp vs 380acp Its not just the big calibers. 9mm was favored because ammo was cheap. 1911 9mms are popular for the same reason.
People want cheap available ammo. Thats why 22lr pistols are so popular. Every new one that comes out is an instant hit. Thats great for the range and training. My view in something like a defensive handgun is more performance minded. Thats why I used to tell folks to buy two guns... train mostly with the 9mm and carry the 40.
If you are in a defensive situation you wont notice a little more recoil. Your knees will be shaking...heart pumping....probably loose hearing etc. Nerves do strang things to the human body. And thats if you are not in shock frozen like a statue. Instructors never want to talk about that though. Professional athletes train for it all day and still choke. Self defense instructors need to teach nerve control. Make students focus and shoot next to a car alarm ringing in there ears after running a few sprints. Most of what is taught is like golf pro lessons. Gotta learn to control those nerves. Tough to do these days. Even on forums like this where we are really all brothers deep down people get worked up over silly things. Then gas lighting....reporting....deleting... etc. etc. again.....nerves are a funny thing.
Don't forget recoil more than a 9mm and you can't hit anything.Remember, bullet size doesn't matter above 9mm, but its absolutely vital below 9mm...
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