GooseGestapo
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Noop! S&W M&P .45;(2014).
(2009), Hasan; Yes; a FN 5.7, AND a S&W .357mag. Model not specified.
Is Federal’s New 30 Super Carry a 32 ACP Magnum?
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Noop! S&W M&P .45;(2014).
(2009), Hasan; Yes; a FN 5.7, AND a S&W .357mag. Model not specified.
True--on plates and pins, and probably larger animals.
The difference in recoil manifests itself in the rapidity of controlled fire, which impacts the probability that critical body parts will be destroyed timely.
Carl N. Brown
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Federal .30 Super Carry is not a .32 ACP Magnum.
Federal .30 Super Carry casing is longer than both the .32 ACP and the 7.65 French Longue (.30 Pederson).
Thank goodness too, because it would wreck the typical gun chambered for the .32 ACP and severely test a gun in 7.65 French.
Federal .30 Super Carry casing is longer than both the .32 ACP and the 7.65 French Longue (.30 Pederson).
Thank goodness too, because it would wreck the typical gun chambered for the .32 ACP and severely test a gun in 7.65 French.
If you look at my picture above the DB9 is right above the CM9 and it is a noticeably smaller pistol (Both 9mm parabellum). The CM9 is a nicer gun than the DB9 in pretty much every conceivable way... BUT I can pocket carry my DB9 and the CM9 is too big. Of all my guns the DB9 is the most unpleasant when it comes to recoil BUT it is a carry gun not a range gun! A few magazines through it at the range is all I ever want to shoot it... but I know it will be ready to go should I ever need it. I have never had a single misfeed with my DB9! (My CM9, LCP, and P32 are the same in never having had a malfunction.)
I used to carry my P32 every day at work where printing wasn't an option. I work from home now, so I shove the LCP or DB9 (depending on my pants) in my front pocket when I leave the house for an errand.
If someone could shave a bit off the dimensions of the DB9 by chambering a similar gun in 30SC I would definitely buy one (if it were reliable)! I "might" even consider a double stack 30SC if it had the same dimensions as my DB9 with more rounds on tap.
I Love the whole idea of the micro double stacks BUT, for me, if I am going to carry a bigger gun I will go up in caliber rather than up in round capacity. I.e. If I want to IWB carry I will carry my XDs .45 rather than a double stack micro nine. Just my personal belief that the first round is the one that counts when it comes to self protection.
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BreechFace
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If you look at my picture above the DB9 is right above the CM9 and it is a noticeably smaller pistol (Both 9mm parabellum). The CM9 is a nicer gun than the DB9 in pretty much every conceivable way... BUT I can pocket carry my DB9 and the CM9 is too big. Of all my guns the DB9 is the most unpleasant when it comes to recoil BUT it is a carry gun! A few magazines through it at the range is all I ever want to shoot it... but I know it will be ready to go should I ever need it. I have never had a single misfeed with my DB9! My CM9, LCP, and P32 are the same in having never has a misfeed.
I used to carry my P32 every day at work where printing wasn't an option. I work from home now, so I shove the LCP or DB9 (depending on my pants) in my front pocket when I leave the house for an errand.
If someone could shave a bit off the dimensions of the DB9 by chambering a similar gun in 30SC I would definitely buy one (if it were reliable)!
I Love the whole idea of the micro double stacks BUT for me if I am going to carry a bigger gun I will go up in caliber rather than up in round capacity. I.e. If I want to IWB carry I will carry my XDs .45 rather than a double stack micro nine. Just my personal belief that the first round is the one that counts when it comes to self protection.
Can you pocket carry the one 2 up from the DB9?
Nice PCR?
Yes!
Here is a pic of me pocket carrying the L5 Desert Eagle in my younger days:
It didn't print at all!
CZ75D compact actually. I believe the difference is the PCR does not have the picatinny rail under the barrel (It is hard to see in the photo).
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C-grunt
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You'll definitely notice being able to control a lighter recoiling gun better.
Dont take this hostile towards you......I am speaking real life. Someone who has never been in a real physical and bloody fight or been shot at will be lucky if they remember they even have a gun. By the time they realize whats going on it is over or too late. I get what you are saying but its not like we are comparing shooting a full bore 357mag snub nose ultralight to a 380. There is not that much of a difference between a 9mm +p and a 40S&W. Besides... all those tactical shooting lessons and practice should get people used to it.
Point is the whole recoil thing on 9mm vs 40s&w is overdone. People are free to choose what tehy are comfortable with.... its just a nonsense reason IMO. Better to just be honest and say I want cheap 9mm. Excessive recoil is so far down on the list its practically meaningless. The noise a 40s&w makes probably intimidates people as much as anything. I guess a woman limpwristing it could be an issue but that is any defensive handgun which is why I tell them to get revolvers. Revolvers are womens guns HA!
C-grunt
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The difference between 9mm and 40 isn't huge, but it is there. I've tested several students on 40s vs 9mm on several shooting drills and across the board the 9mm are shot faster and with equal or better scores.
I also think you are greatly discounting the average gun carrier. I've investigated more than a few self defense gun uses and while most of the defenders didn't perform awesome, they got the job done.
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You may be right. My faith in the average CCW holder has degraded through the years. Lots of people doing it because its in vogue and dont really understand responsible firearms handling. I trust my kids with firearms more than most adults these days. Probably bias because I have been around this stuff so long and forgot my own habits growing up. It happens.
Then again people are pretty nutty and have short fuses these days. Makes them hard to predict and read. We live in a time of extreme emotions combined with moral bankruptcy. I honestly feel many of these folks are better off without a bullet in the chamber reguardless of what experts say. Especially when they are starting out.
Have you observed people shooting both rapidly in defensive training exercises?
Mostly men with that type of stuff. Been with enough women that it made me uncomfortable reguardless of what caliber they were using. Last female I helped out I gave her one bullit at a time. That was a semi auto though. Most new gun owners and carriers are not doing rapid shooting in defensive training exercises. The majority think shooting is like the movies or youtube videos. I spent a decent amount of time drilling that out of them. Lots of practice with dummy rounds learning how to manipulate their handgun then teaching them what bullets are capable of when people are sloppy. I am not a prude but I am deffinitly more safety oriented than I am speed or tactical ability. I kind of discourage them from carrying a pistol until they are basically an expert on their firearm. Lots of 22 pistol practice as well.
I do the same with my kids now... start slow.... ease them into how to move safely with a loaded weapon etc. I dont look at firearms handling as a sport or some kind of fun thing. No goofing around at the range when working with other folks. I am not a prick out there but I try to keep things steady and focussed. I dont do it much anymore though other than my kids and a few friends here and there. Most of which are women so I try to avoid it.
Plenty and the reoccurring theme when the shot timer is out on the square range folks shoot cheap wwwb, AE or blazer ammo and then load +p Ranger, HST or gold dots for the world.
So when we compare times we use 125-130 power factor 9mm vs 175-180 power factor 40.
But the SD 9mm ammo is 150-155 power factor.
Just a comment or two on perceived felt recoil. The gun plays a part in the felt recoil.
I have a mid-1980's Colt Mustang (380 ACP) that seems to have less recoil with the same ammunition than my 2010 Walther PPK (380 ACP). The mustang is a locked breech action while the PPK is a blow back action.
40 S&W in my full size SIG 1911 is a pussy cat compared to the recoil in the 40 S&W Springfield P9C Sub-compact that I used to own. Both are locked breech but the P9C is lighter and smaller than a full size 1911.
A full size 9mm 1911 has less felt recoil than a full size 45 ACP 1911 even though the pressure in the 9mm is greater than the 45.
So, depending what the firearms manufacturers provide for the 30 Super Carry, recoil could be less or greater than 9mm. Lots of things to consider than just the ballistics of the cartridge when it comes to felt recoil.
I have a mid-1980's Colt Mustang (380 ACP) that seems to have less recoil with the same ammunition than my 2010 Walther PPK (380 ACP). The mustang is a locked breech action while the PPK is a blow back action.
40 S&W in my full size SIG 1911 is a pussy cat compared to the recoil in the 40 S&W Springfield P9C Sub-compact that I used to own. Both are locked breech but the P9C is lighter and smaller than a full size 1911.
A full size 9mm 1911 has less felt recoil than a full size 45 ACP 1911 even though the pressure in the 9mm is greater than the 45.
So, depending what the firearms manufacturers provide for the 30 Super Carry, recoil could be less or greater than 9mm. Lots of things to consider than just the ballistics of the cartridge when it comes to felt recoil.
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JCooperfan1911
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Tell that to the Uber driver who just successfully defended himself from carjacking.
He didn’t seem to be a floundering fish or forget where his gun was.
WrongHanded
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Or maybe he was floundering, and did forget, whilst he was actually in danger. Then after the danger was over he remembered he had a gun, and got mad at himself for not using it at the appropriate time. So he chose to shoot two people who were no longer posing an imminent lethal threat, as they were trying to leave the scene, to make up for his failure to act promptly.
Just an alternative point of view to consider.
Mosin77
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A bit OT, but if it’s the incident from late November, the news at the time reported they were searching his car for money when he shot them. Which isn’t quite the same thing as “trying to leave the scene.” Whether he could have had enough notice to draw his weapon earlier is impossible to say from what seems to be available publicly. We all like to think we’d perceive the threat, draw our gun quickly, not fumble the controls, and deliver accurate, aimed fire to stop the threat should it be necessary. But in real life it’s not always possible to know someone is a threat before they’re too close to draw.
It sounds like 9mm did the job for the Uber driver, but maybe he will consider .30SC for his next gun.
Not to break up the 9/10/45 argument, but my initial thought with this announcement was:
I wish Federal would spend more time making ammo for existing calibers than going off and creating a new one that will suck up production capacity of the others.
I wish Federal would spend more time making ammo for existing calibers than going off and creating a new one that will suck up production capacity of the others.
C-grunt
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I think you quoted the wrong person.
Jim Watson
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Something to be aware of when you are designing The Ideal .30. While it has the same maximum OAL as 9mm P, that is for a flat nosed or hollow point bullet vs the 9mm's pointy roundnose. That reminds me of the 10mm Delta Elite Colts; a long blunt round in an action sized for roundnose.
Different incident.
WrongHanded
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That's another great reason why now is the time to push a new cartridge. High demand and limited supply means putting guns chambered in a new cartridge in the display cases, and filling the shelves with that ammo, only increases the chances of success.
It's not good for people who want to buy existing cartridges, and they might not be able to produce enough of the new guns and ammo, but it's a really smart time to push it if they can.
Which is no different than when they designed the 40 S&W to fit into 9mm sized pistols. That is the reason 40 S&W uses flat nosed bullets.
C-grunt
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Ive read that this has been in development since 2017 timeframe and was supposed to debut in 2020. It was pushed off because of Covid.
So this is not Federal deciding to come up with something new at a bad time. It's more that they finally have the ability to release it. That's a lot of R&D and production money spent for something that's been shelved for a couple years.
So this is not Federal deciding to come up with something new at a bad time. It's more that they finally have the ability to release it. That's a lot of R&D and production money spent for something that's been shelved for a couple years.
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