Mobil 1 Synthetic

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Sounds good, I've been looking for something like this and it
makes sense as far as I can tell from a lot of college chem and
flashbacks to my motorhead days etc.

I'd like to use the miobil 1 and adjust to taste with Marvel. What
do I lose by leaving out the ATF? I don't care for that stuff if I
can avoid it.
 
jacobhh,

Not much really. While the ATF possesses anti-oxidation additives, so too, does the Mobil 1, just not in as great a concentration as the ATF. By avoiding the ATF you also avoid the possibility of the ATF attacking or degrading the polymer components so often found in guns today.

G/S
 
Gun Slinger,

Thanks for the info! I had browsed around the BITOG site quite a bit looking for just that sort of comparison, but never found anything as concise as what you just posted. I am saving this thread to my hard drive for future reference.

I've been using Mobil 1 10W-30 on my 3913 and AK for a little while (I used that viscosity because I had some left over that I had bought for my car). I had been using Hoppes Elite gun oil for the guns, but it seemed to dry to bare metal over the course of a few months. I'll probably pick up a quart of M1 20W50 as well. Even the 10W30 is noticeably thicker than Rem Oil, though, and seems to hang around a lot longer.

FWIW, for those who want to know lots and lots about oil chemistry, the BITOG site (www.bobistheoilguy.com) is the greatest. Lots of knowledgeable people on the forums there, and good articles also.
 
Monkey Wrench

http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=895087&an=0&page=0#Post895087
bruce 381 wrote:
most gun lubes are repackaged "regular" lubes I make a good one at work for my 45's it has a LOW breakaway torque for cold temps and a high AW/EP load for low wear. PAO based and I like it as a semi fluid iot does not sling off the slide in use.
Click to expand...

Then we have-
http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=614705&an=0&page=9#Post614705
MolaKule wrote:
These specialty synthetic gun oils contain ingredients that prevent/remove rust and are specially formulated for gun mechanisms. For gun mechanisms, you need a fluid that contains a special surfactant that helps spread the ingredients, such as anti-wear and rust inhibitor chemicals. This surfactant and gun-specific AW is expensive. In addition, the cleaning ingredient needs to be non-toxic and have the charateristic that it evaporates with minimal vapor and leaves behind the AW and anti-rust ingredients. It must not gum up or leave residues that attract moisture and dust, field debris, etc.

IMHO, Ammonium-based cleaners are most objectionable when it comes to odors and toxicity.

Engine oils may contain additves that actually harm metal and wood finishes, such as sulfur and phosphorus that attracts moisture to form acids. In an engine, most of this moisture is evaporated out with high temperatures, but with guns, that moisture just collects on surfaces.

A smokeless propellant gun cleaner/lubricant should never be used with blackpowder guns, especially the mineral oil based type.
Click to expand...

bruce has been in lubrication industry for ~ 30 years.

MolaKule is a Chemist, PhD, and is one whom is contacted to make something to fit a need, he also has his own company, teaches and is whom the Tribiology folks consult.

THE argument, no matter what Subject, from cars, motorcycles, tractors, sewing machines, roller skates , paintball, locks...etc, is lubrication.
Always has been, always will be.
 
Coronach : Classic Post!

Since lubing often is associated with cleaning, and cleaning rods- I present this Classic by Coronach .

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=53481&postcount=15

I knew it. I saw it coming. I haven't monitored TFL for VERY long, but it had to happen:

Someone asked the one question CERTAIN to generate more contradictory statements than "how long can mag springs be left loaded?"



Oh yeah, baby. The big one: how often should you clean your gun, and how should you do it?

And the two sides face off...the gun slobs on the one side and the firearm neat freaks on the other. Who wins? Who knows.

Well, just to keep the argument rolling: I clean my gun every time I shoot it. I follow a very rigorous and detailed cleansing ritual:

First, I sacrifice a cat to Costello, the God of Ballistics...my aim is true.

Then I take the gun apart. Look at it. Marvel at its filthiness. Contemplate how much money I just sent downrange to punch holes in innocent and generally inoffensive objects.

Take the barrel. Soak a brush in whatever bore solvent I have. Run it through from the breach, if I remember that its a no-no to do it from the other end, otherwise I do it the wrong way. Run a wet patch through. Then a few more. Start dry patching. Eye my patch supply warily and balance the cost of patches, the free time I have in the day and the relative amount of grime on the gun, and make a decision on how many more patches to use. Eventually they come out white. I stop about then. Look down the barrel. Clean? Shiney? Little black spots? If the answers are YES, YES, NO, I stop. Any other variation requires further ablutions to the Diety of Gun Cleanliness.

Take slide. Dip patch or small cloth in gun cleaning stuff. Wipe it down, inside and out (try to keep really dirty stuff inside from spreading to relatively undirty areas outside by switching patches/cloths in a common-sense manner). Take a brush. Scrub inside. Wipe a few times with dry patches. Does it look clean? Try a white patch test...if its still white after rubbing, its clean. Use Q-tips on the really small areas if you like, otherwise don't worry about it. They're small areas.

Do roughly the same thing on the frame.

Wipe off the recoil spring. I doubt if it cares, but it might be feeling left out.

Put a small drop of oil on the slide rails. Reassemble. Function test. Everything that is supposed to move should move. Things that should remain firmly in place should be rock solid. Switches switch, the trigger clicks, levers...lever? If so, you're done. If you have a blued gun, follow up with a dry wipe to get off all of your rust-causing skin oils, then a *lightly* oiled rag to coat.

There! I have now made fun of and offended everyone.

And yes, I know. I'm doing it all wrong.

Mike
Click to expand...
 
benEzra,

I am flattered that you think enough of my work to commit it to perpetuity on your hard drive. That alone is worth the effort that I put forth in assembling the data and I thank you for the compliment, my friend. :)

As for the 10W30, it should be sufficient until you get the 20W50, as you most certainly know by now. It is thicker than RemOil by a good margin as the RemOil usually hovers around the 25 cSt (give or take) level at 100 F and really thins quickly as it is subjected to heating. The 10W30 starts at 62.0 cSt at 100 F and thins to 10.0 cSt at 212 F and if memory serves it also has a higher VI than RemOil and that is why it seems to stick around longer than the RemOil. The 20W50 and the 10W30 also have anti-oxidation inhibitors present in their formulations.

Be prepared: The 20W50 will be much thicker (more than 2x) than the 10W30. It is my 'go to' lubricant for all my firearms in all weather conditions.



sm,

The post from Coronach had me rolling with laughter. What a funny read ! who knew that cleaning a gun could be made to sound so funny ?

You are right. It is a classic.



G/S
 
Hmmm

How bout this one? Do any of the engine/cam intallation lubes have any interesting properties that may be useful for gun related applications?

2800B2.jpg
 
Honestly, I've never bothered to research any of them. The only ones that I know anything about is STP Oil Treatment whose primary ingredient is ZDDP and Slick 50 Engine Treatment which, depending on whom you ask, is either 'great stuff' or 'a total crap'.

While I will start looking at these products, I am with atblis on this one.

Anyone have any direct knowledge regarding these products and their usefulness as gun care products in the roles of cleaners, lubricants and/or preservatives?


G/S
 
Interesting thread - much better than the usual "I like it - I don't" back'n'forth.

Mobil 1 is always the example motor oil discussed in these threads - is there something unique to recommend it over other synthetics (Penzoil, Quaker, etc.)?

Thanks
/Bryan
 
Three things come to mind:

1. It costs money to license products such as additive packages.
So many buy a package to meet criteria i.e. API SM. Lubrizol, for instance sells this package to more than one "Oil Brand".
So while one side touts Brand A, the other Brand B and fuss about it, it very well could be the Oil is virtually the same, as Brand A, and Brand Both bought the Same Additive Package from the same folks.
Just different names, color of bottles and such.

2. How did all these guns that date w-a-y back ever work at all and how come they are still around and work today with only using the products of the day.

3. Black-Powder Firearms.
Now talk about having to keep simple, nothing "fancy" and again all these Old guns, still around, and new BP firearms that work the same way, and these cannot use the new fancy stuff...
Soap. Hot Water and non-petroleum products...oh me oh my!

There has always been really good products come about that get lost in with the mix of bad products, marketing hype.


If it sounds too good, it probably is

Three factors determine the price of all goods and services; greed, greed, and greed. - old boss of mine.


We bought 28% ammonia in a glass jug for a industry I was in.
Yeah. Strong stuff,and it will kill you being that strong.

We diluted it outside...
Benchrest shooter and high round count rifle shooters, When they finally cleaned these rifles, would come see me/us.
Sorry, these Big Boys and Girls did NOT do barrel break ins and clean every so many rounds.

Just when the guns where not doing what they should at 500-1000 yrds, or end of season - whatever.

Oh yeah, lots and lots of times. Dribble that 28% ammonia use a cotton mop, dribble some more, this time patches, and then follow with Oil, just Hoppe's Lubricating Oil, Browning Gun Oil - two most used back in the day.

Hoppe's No 9 would do it pretty good, and if you took the time.
28% ammonia the way these folks did it, hurried it up a bit .

They did not clean barrels, only chambers.
Zippo lighter fluid for bolts.
Tin cans don't break down in the sun like Plastic Ronsonel lighter fluid bottles.

It was rare for one to use a brush on a bore...mops and patches.

Good idea to wear a bandanna over mouth and eyes, dang wind always did change her mind. ;)
 
This gun stuff is just too hard...

...might be best to get rid of all mine.

I mean I got the wrong guns, wrong calibers to start off with.
Then I don't shoot them right, wearing the wrong glasses and ear protection.
IF I shoot the durn things, they gonna get dirty.
Now I get fussed at for the way I do/don't clean using the wrong cleaning rods, patches, brushes.
Solvent? Oh just peachy! Now I am going to get fussed at if I don't use the correct solvent. If I get the right solvent of the week, I get yelled at for using it wrong and like a dummy I did not get the memo this weeks cleaning rod has changed again.

Lubing the damn thing?
Forget it. I am doomed for hell no matter what I do about lubing the thing.


Excuse me, I gotta do a search and see what sticks and rocks I am supposed to think about this week. ;)
 
Canuck-IL,

The answer to your question is yes...............and no.

The reason Mobil 1 tends to be recommended so frequently is that it is manufactured from a PAO (polyalphaolefin) basestock. Many other synthetics have this base stock (PAO's are referred to as group 4 and are completely synthesized from non-mineral sources of hydrocarbons) and then there are others categorized as group 3 basestocks made partially from mineral based hydrocarbons that come from hydrocracked petroleum products and are very nearly as good as group 4 basestocks without the expense. It is a bit complex to get into in detail here, but let it suffice to say that group 4 basestocks are widely regarded as the best (and most expensive to synthesize as well) basestocks due to the fact that they do not require large amounts of polymeric viscosity modifiers and other additives in order to achieve the desired multi-viscosity properties and high temperature tolerance so sought after in motor oils. This is not to say that Mobil 1 is the only brand to use these group 4 basestocks as there are other brandnames that use them, too. In order to make this determination though, you will most likely need to go to the product's website and take a look at either the MSDS, or better yet, the PDS (product data sheet) and consult it for the composition of the oil. In other words, in order to match the composition of Mobil 1 you will need find another lubricant that is composed of exclusively (of group 4) PAO basestocks.


I hope that this answers your question clearly and provides you an idea as to why this is so.


sm,


Quote:
.....might be best to get rid of all mine.


Cool! I'll take them all and I won't charge you a penny! I'll even pay the shipping to my home.............:D




You know, now that you mention it, it is indeed amazing is it not, that using all those obsolescent, unenhanced lubricants that didn't have all the miraculous additives and super chemical formulas didn't cause those old guns to rust away into "nothingness" or suffer a major malfunction (blow-up) as one might be led to believe when faced with all the new technological developments present in today's gun care products?

Or maybe (sacriledge, I'm sure) these things are just not necessary because the folks 'back then' just took good care of their firearms?


As for the 28% ammonia solution: That'll take the hide of off any part of you that it touches. Yikes !!! But, I'll bet it did clean the chambers rather quickly.

If left in long enough, I bet it would also clean the rifling itself out of the barrel.


S/G
 
All this makes for informative reading, in fact so much so I lost interest about a page ago, and I decided I will just stick with CLP. Before that it was WD-40 and/or Outters and Remoil. I have a 75 year old gun I have owned since 1960 or so. No rust everything is fine, my hunters will fire from the triple digits to well below zero

I am a firm believer in it's far more important how you care for gun's that what product you use. Akin to changing the oil in your car, it's far more important when changed than with what oil. In both instances do use a "premium" product.

I tend to agree with a much earlier post that this does sound like a ad for Mobil 1, I've read more than necessary.
 
Quote (eliphalet):
".....I've read more than necessary."


And yet you still came back? :scrutiny: :scrutiny: :scrutiny:


Nobody holdin' a gun to yer head is there? :D



Hmmm....:rolleyes:


G/S
 
All shooting is, is doing the correct basic fundamentals over and over and over again.
While we may to where we shoot a bit faster, reload without fumbling, shoot while moving, all we are really doing is repeating the correct basic fundamentals.
We have to have the correct basics before we can build upon them - and the correct basics are we fall back on when we hit a slump.

Guns and Care, same deal. Correct Basic Fundamentals.

NO tool is ever any better that user of said tool.

You can take a Custom Blue Printed cleaning rod made of unobtanium, and if used wrong, you can ruin the crown in a nano second.

High Dollar Solvent Internet "says" and ruin the nice wood stocks, or synthetic stocks.

Ruger Smith&Wesson and others will NOT allow some chemicals in facilities.
Corrosion Stress Cracks...

They have educated folks on the payroll that missed this, and fixed this.
And JQPublic knows more that these folks about using chemicals?
Gun Companies that pay big buck for Liability insurance?

The Makers of Gun Barrels like Wil Shuemann shares how to care for a barrel, and folks know more than he does about it?

Gabe McMillian, shared how to care for his barrels. He did not believe in "breaking in a barrel".
Shared how new barrel makers come up with this "barrel breaking in" to sell more barrels as customers would wear out a barrel faster by cleaning it, instead of shooting bullets through it!


Here is the part I really like.
Now I was raised to pay attention to chambers, extraction, magazines for semi-auto, and under star extraction on revolvers.

I have slapped the trigger on a LOT of shotgun shells. Number 1 problem I saw/see with a shotgun?
Chamber.

You can see real pretty swirls in the bore, but that chamber is a gritty , plastic mess.


Fact: A lady with a old butter knife and a tin can of Singer Sewing machine oil can inspect, maintain and fix more stuff around a house than a fella with a HUGE Toolbox and umpteen bazillion bottles of lube.

She can do it faster too, cause she ain't gonna be dilly dallying around, spending 3 days on the Internet, 4 more asking everybody at the gun club, and at work.

I mean hell. Butter knife puts the wall plate screw back in, and one drop of Sewing machine oil and the door don't squeak.

Oh, her guns run like a top too.
She will out shoot the guys as well...:D
 
Gun Slinger,

Would it be OK if I crosspost your info on a couple of other gun-related forums I frequent?
 
Hmm

I am curious about the Assembly lubes because they seem to have some interesting properties. They are intended for assembling new engines and protecting them during the initial startup.

They seem to form rather tenacious films and have the ability to remain in place during storage (if the engine isn't used immediately).

Some are indicated for corrosion protection as well.

I have some left over from a recent build, so I'll experiment some. However, I don't know what I'll be looking for as all of my firearms have been rather reliable already.
 
all I can add is that I started running Royal Purple in my old air cooled VW (which relies on oil for cooling and lubrication) instead of Valvoline. (I also used royal purple gear oil) My oil temps dropped by 30-50 degrees and my fuel economy increased by 5 mpg. If it could do all that for my car I bet it would work great for my guns...must try it now.
 
Well

If your gun was an internal combustion engine... I guess in some ways it is but the differences are such that a lot of the critical considerations with motor oil don't apply. I am sure Royal purple would work great, but a lot of the things that make it good for your VW would be wasted on a pistol.

I haven't observed any failings of commercial Breakfree, so I wonder what I should be looking for to determine of another product is better. Better corrosion protection might be one...
 
sm,

I touched upon the topic of Corrosion Stress Fracture induced by the use of chlorinated lubricant additives in an earlier post and it always bears mention that the use of such additive compounds should be avoided with 'extra vigilance' being the "buzzwords" here. Fortunately, they are no longer widely used, but there is always the possibility that one might run into some old stock somewhere or be given some in a situation where it is being borrowed.

And you are right, the "basics" of proper maintenance will guarantee us functional guns in the foreseeable future.




atblis,

There is always the issue of 'diminishing returns' as we look for 'better' alternatives. The oft-quoted Russian proverb, " 'Better' is the enemy of 'good enough' " probably applies here in that what we have in terms of firearm's lubricants is most likely 'good enough'.

Of course, should you find something that is "Better" by a sufficient margin, I will be "all ears". :evil: Just what assembly lubes are you interested in?

As for your observations of commercial Break-Free and its lack of 'failings', it is, of course, a PAO based lubricant with various anti-oxidation additives, so I am not surprised that it performs as well as well as it does.


kungfuhippie,

I am not familiar with Royal Purple, but it sounds like an interesting expedient. Might even work in your guns, too. :)




benEzra,

Certainly! You may "cross-post" this thread as long as I am credited with respect to my contributions herein.

Again, sir, you flatter me. Thanks. :D


Kind of curious, though. What other Forums will you be attaching this to?


Regards,

G/S
 
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With royal purple maybe I can get better mpg from my gas operated semi autos :neener:
(Those on cal guns might get my joke.)
 
benEzra,

Certainly! You may "cross-post" this thread as long as I am credited with respect to my contributions herein.

Again, sir, you flatter me. Thanks.


Kind of curious, though. What other Forums will you be attaching this to?
Click to expand...

Gun Slinger,

The ones I had in mind were the AK forums, the DU Outdoor Life forum, and Guntards.net.

Thanks!
 
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