Nervous to sell to this guy..but feel obligated. What would you do ?

[hexidismal]

I've got sort of an interesting situation here, and I wonder (as the title implies) how some of you would handle it. No doubt this must have happened to some of you before..

My current girlfriend has this friend in the area. I think it's important to note that it's sort of her only friend in the area, as she's been staying with me for awhile due to some personal troubles in her life, and she's not anywhere nearby most other people she knows. She's involved deeply in the friend's wedding plans and all that kind of stuff. The reason I note that should become clear as this goes on.

So, this girl has a finance.. and hes, well.. an absolute dolt. He's nice, don't get me wrong, but he's just the kind of guy I absolutely would not trust with a loaded firearm. Not only is his knowledge and willingness to learn about firearms seemingly very limited, but quite frankly he's just not bright at all. He's also fairly young (22 y/o) , and was raised in a very low income city environment. While I certainly don't hold that against anyone, what I mean to convey to you is that his attitude and mannerisms are very "ghetto".

So here comes the problem. While visiting at my home ( accompanying my girlfriend's friend ), he asked to see some of my firearms. Mind you, he knew already that I was avidly pro-gun (I make no bones about that) and that I possessed some number of firearms. I only clarify that so as to inform you the reader, that I would otherwise not have announced my possession of firearms to him. Anyway, since that was unavoidable, I thought of it as a possible opportunity to impress upon him some of my ideas of how a responsible and legal gun owner thinks , as opposed to much of what he has likely been exposed to. Let's never forget that the only way to improve upon the unfortunate outlook of some regarding gun ownership ans proper usage is to teach people, right ? Well, in the course of discussion I made the mishap of mentioning that I was placing an SKS rifle ( modified "tactical", adj. stock, pistol grip, 30rd mag) up for sale. (Which I did, here on THR). He mentioned back, "One day I want to buy something like that, maybe I could buy yours if you still have it". (Not an exact quote) . I didn't think much of it, thinking that "One day" was a far day off, and the rifle would be long gone. So I mumbled something like "Sure, sure, one day maybe" (Mistake #2) , and went on to something else putting it far from my mind. Eventually my girlfriend and her freind parted ways, and thus I was also free of having this somewhat cretinous fellow in my home.

A day or two later the friend stopped by again, this time by herself. At some point she said to me (of course), something along the lines of " Oh, we discussed it and I want to buy the rifle you have for sale for J*** that you said you would sell him, to give it to him for his birthday"

...

"AAAAaaagh!", I screamed internally, and quite to myself.

I was sort of at a loss for words. So, here I am in a bad situation. I would really like to come up with some way to not sell this guy the rifle. The fact is I don't believe he will act safely with it. Obviously, though I do really need the money right myself, it hardly seems worth the worry, and the potential safety hazards to others. BUT.. If I don't sell the rifle, then I put my personal life in a somewhat hazardous situation of its own for all the obvious reasons.

Keep in mind though, these few facts. The man, although seemingly incapable of forming his thoughts into a well organized sentence.. says he wants the rifle for personal protection of his family. I'm sure most of us at least can agree that under the reasonable guidelines that he has not been convicted of any crimes, and is not considered mentally ill (just intellectually challenged.. hehe), that to have the protection afforded by a firearm is his right. On the other hand, I strongly feel that determination should be made by approval by licensed firearms dealer. On the personal side, by my refusal to honor what was perceived as an offer of sale, I stand a good chance to put a wedge between my girlfriend and her basically one and only good friend (and soon to be co-worker).


So what would you do ? Has anything similar ever happened to you, where you've been put in such an uncomfortable situation over the sale of a firearm ?

EDIT: Please also read post #49 in this thread from me

-JT

 

[AJ Dual]

Sorry, that does suck.

I would really wish I'd have had the quick thinking to apoligize and say I'd already sold it.

Do not ignore your "spiderman sense"/intuition on this. Even if it means you wind up insulting someone.

 

[Soybomb]

I wouldn't feel under any obligation to sell to someone you didn't feel comfortable with. If you need to be diplomatic you can say you already have a buyer online.

That said, consider that he is going to wind up buying a gun either way. You have the opportunity to do a little mentoring and campaigning for the 2nd if you're up for it. "I'll sell him the rifle but only on the condition that he'll come to the range for an hour with me to pick it up and let me teach him the basics of gun safety."

 

[kevindsingleton]

Just tell her that you've already sold it, and you're just waiting on the money to arrive (which explains why it's still in your possession). You don't owe him the sale.

If she (or he, or your "current" girlfriend) presses you, tell them you sold it to me. I'll be happy to tell him to get stuffed.

You're welcome.

 

[rcmodel]

It's broke and you can't sell it in that condition?

7.62x39 has WAY too much over-penetration to use for home defense?

A guy on THR beat you to it?

And of course, the old standby of "I changed my mind, and I like it so much I'm not gonna sell it right now"?

BTW: I sold an SKS to a hair-brained wacko friend of mine at work about 20 years ago.
I still expect to pick up the newspaper and read something awful happened involving that rifle!

Just say No!
It ain't worth it!

rcmodel

 

[bradm]

Don't forget that you can't sell her the rifle if it is really for the other guy - that would be an illegal straw man sale. The guy would need to buy directly from you. Make sure the price you are asking is ridiculously high, and make sure to mention the additional costs related to private party transfer fees and DROS costs. In other words, price it out of his range.

Good luck.

 

[rapid1]

I wouldn't make that sale. that said, I have only sold a few of my guns and all were to people I knew well. I traded a couple at a gunshop on new ones. I even have a couple I could part with to get something else I want, but I still have them as the are worth more to me than a dealer will pay.

I certainly wouldn't sell a firearm to someone like you describe. the way out is that you could simply say you decided not to sell it...

 

[Rio Laxas]

Stupidity doesn't disqualify you from owning a firearm, and as long as he is legal to posses it otherwise then just get a bill of sale from him if you do sell it to him. That being said, it is your firearm and you can always tell him that you have decided to keep it because you really "cant live with out it." I've had a few firearms where I've almost sold them and realized that I didn't want to. Just tell him where he can get one for himself and leave it at that.

 

[SN13]

If this guy is not very knowledgeable, tell him you'll sell it to him but have to go through an FFL to do so. Say you think it's a regulation. It'll cost him $30 bucks and you'll split the cost with him or something.

This way, you've done your due-diligence by getting the guy background checked, and you can sell him your rifle.

Make sure you talk to the owner of the store before hand about it. Use a gun-shop you know and trust.

I figure if the background check comes up NO-SALE. then you can get out of it gracefully, and if it's a YES, then the Gov already checked him, what more can anyone expect you to do?


That's my 10 cents... damn that inflation.

 

[bogie]

You've got another guy who you promised it to first.

And after the fellow goes somewhere else, you can sell it quietly to someone else.

 

[NeoSpud]

Since he said it was for home protection, you could dissuade him by suggesting that he get a "more appropriate" gun, like an 870. Not that I have any problem with using an SKS myself, but that would sound like a legit criticism and if he does ND, there would hopefully be less chance of the shot traveling through multiple walls (assuming he's not using 00).

Or you can say that it's a "collectors" SKS, worth 2 grand. That'll make him a bit.

 

[ColinthePilot]

You have the opportunity to do a little mentoring and campaigning for the 2nd if you're up for it. "I'll sell him the rifle but only on the condition that he'll come to the range for an hour with me to pick it up and let me teach him the basics of gun safety."

Bingo. This makes everyone happy. Bring rifle, dolt, and a couple hundred rounds to the range and pound some responsible gun ownership into his head. It sounds like he's a new shooter, blank canvas, if you will. You have a great chance to make another responsible and safe gun owner here, maybe a range buddy in the future.

 

[FourTeeFive]

Now we all know what it must be like to be a gun dealer. I've seen some guys in gun stores that personally I would not want to sell a firearm.

 

[Stradawhovious]

I've come across a similar situation where mutual "friend" of mine wanted to buy one of my handguns. Although it is perfectly legal for a person to person transfer here, I simply told him that I wasn't comfortable selling a firearm to him. Upon the relentless whining pleading and mild insulting looks I simply stated that due to his quick temper, statements like "if I only had a gun right now" and lack of practical experience, I don't trust him with a loaded gun. If the other party is unwilling to accept your personal feelings towards the sale here, it's just one more reason to not sell him a gun. He will more than likely acquire one through other legal channels (that is if he ia legally capable) anyways, but you can then wash your hands of the situation. Also, as you described, if the clerks spidey sense kicks in like yours did, they more than likely won't sell him one either. Just tell him the truth. Saves embarrassing backtracking later.

 

[Zundfolge]

Don't forget that you can't sell her the rifle if it is really for the other guy - that would be an illegal straw man sale.

1) its a gift so no, its not a straw purchase
2) hexidismal is not a Federally Licensed Firearms Dealer, so again its not a straw purchase.


hexidismal, if you're really concerned that he'll do something dangerous/stupid/illegal with it you should probably find a way out of it.

However, one way to look at this is you have an opportunity here to mentor this guy and guide him toward responsible gun ownership.

Make the sale contingent on this guy joining you at the range a few times for instruction and training ... hell, make the training YOUR birthday gift to him. If you spin it right he'll be thrilled that you're willing to teach him how to get the most out of his new rifle.

I've known a lot of dumb kids over the years that grew up directly because of their interest in guns. They learned not to be an idiot because they didn't want to look stupid to the other gunnies.

 

[357WheelGun]

I would agree with those who say to tell them that you have the rifle already sold to someone else and are just waiting for the money to arrive.

Then perhaps explain that it would not have been a good choice for home defense and offer to take the guy to the range with you sometime so that you can demonstrate both firearms safety and show him some weapons that might be better suited for home defense. Kind of, "I'm sorry, but I already promised it to someone else online and they're mailing payment. But I'll be happy to take him to the range sometime and teach him more about firearms safety and how to shoot. Heck, I'll even help him pick out something that will work even better for home defense than the SKS would have once he's learned to handle a gun safely."

That way you're still the good guy, but you get some assurance that he'll be safe with it and you don't have to worry about giving an untrained guy a gun.

 

[physics]

Tell him you'll only sell it to him if he can demonstrate safe handling techniques. You say this is your concern, explain the impact that unsafe gun handling can have. Take him to the range. Explain why you don't feel comfortable, maybe he'll take it to heart.

This is all assuming you trust the guy enough to teach him about guns.

 

[springmom]

SN13 has a good idea. If he comes up clean on the background check, then you've done what you can. If gun dealers all had a crystal ball they could check to see if someone will someday commit a crime because of a pending sale, that'd be lovely, but for now, what you've got is the background check. Probably worth the peace of mind in this case.

I have to admit I had the tiniest bit of suspicion crop up when the GIRL came and said they had talked it over and SHE would buy it and give it to him. Yes, you can certainly buy guns as presents, happens all the time, and that's not in itself a straw purchase. But it *could* be....after all, if they've talked it over, why is SHE making the deal?

I'm probably overly suspicious, but that's what comes of being mom the four I've raised, what can I say?

Springmom

 

[BADUNAME37]

Don't SELL!

Well to answer your last question first, NO I have never been in that predicament, or anything semingly close to that (and I hope I never am).

With that said, I believe we all (as humans), have a fifth (sixth) sense. I know, many times, when I meet someone and I "size them up, in my mind" it usually comes to pass (more times than not) that the way I "sized them up" is the way they actually are.

If your "gut" reaction was that you don't want to sell him the gun, then I say no matter what DO NOT SELL HIM THAT GUN!

Others have given perfect examples of how to "get out of this sale." The easiest would be to "misplace" a crucial part while cleaning it and say it has been malfunctioning and you need to have it fixed before you can sell it.

Hide the part, and the gun doesn't work right, see?
"See how the action doesn't slide right? I can't sell it and I refuse to sell it with the malfunction. He'll have to get a gun somewhere else."

He needs a SINGLE SHOT bolt action .410 shotgun (2 3/4" shells only).

 

[22-rimfire]

In this particular case, I'm not sure if you are concerned that he may have a criminal record or that he just seems irresponsible.

Here is my thought... say sure I'll sell it to you to gift him the firearm. But I want to run him down to the local gunshop for a NICs check prior to giving him the gun.

There are lots of irresponsible people. You didn't mention what kind of rifle it was. If you are uncomfortable doing the deal, then just say, I'm uncomfortable because of these reasons..... it's your gun.

 

[BADUNAME37]

It's a modified SKS from what I understood.

Or, you could tell him you will sell it if:
1) he passes a background check AND
2) he shows you identification proving that he has taken a course in FIREARM SAFETY.
There, you are actually EASY to get along with, see?!

 

[B.D. Turner]

"I decided not to sell it" plain and simple. I have turned down sales before. Make no excuse. Don't tell them it is broken because they still want it when you get it fixed or they will take it as is and not care. No lie no excuse.

 

[22-rimfire]

Yeah, I missed that part or forgot.

I made the mishap of mentioning that I was placing an SKS rifle ( modified "tactical", adj. stock, pistol grip, 30rd mag) up for sale.

After additional thought, the type of rifle should not matter. For some reason I was thinking 22LR when I posed the question. But it should not make any difference.

 

[chupacabrah]

I wouldnt make the sale, follow your gut

 

[rswartsell]

Man up and just refuse to sell.

I understand the social pressures that you feel but if your GF and her friend can't understand that you think it's inappropriate, just deal with that problem the best you can rather than dealing with the consequences of some cocked up subterfuge. Haven't you ever watched a sitcom where people go through incredible convolutions just because of a feared socially awkward situation? If so then call them morality plays and live with honesty as the best policy. At least you will be putting the possibility of further gun interaction with the guy down the road in the right place.