J Star
Member
Yet another "pro-gun" person with the attitude that he's good enough for guns, but another isn't.
Nervous to sell to this guy..but feel obligated. What would you do ?
- Thread starter hexidismal
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I didn't meet the guy and I don't know him so I can't tell you whether you should sell it to him or not.
I don't exactly know what you mean when you say he has "ghetto" mannerisms, but if you just mean the way he dresses, walks, and speaks is reminiscent of what you might see in a rap video or in most high schools and most colleges in the country, then I don't think that is a reason not to sell him the gun.
On the other hand, you can refuse to sell the gun to whoever you want and if it makes you uncomfortable, don't do it. Just say you decided not to sell it after all. Say you thought you were ready to let it go, but you aren't. Pretend to be emotionally attached to it.
I don't exactly know what you mean when you say he has "ghetto" mannerisms, but if you just mean the way he dresses, walks, and speaks is reminiscent of what you might see in a rap video or in most high schools and most colleges in the country, then I don't think that is a reason not to sell him the gun.
On the other hand, you can refuse to sell the gun to whoever you want and if it makes you uncomfortable, don't do it. Just say you decided not to sell it after all. Say you thought you were ready to let it go, but you aren't. Pretend to be emotionally attached to it.
22-rimfire
Member
J Star, I sort of have the same feeling as well. If you don't trust him to qualify for ownership, just have a NICs check done on him. It obviously is not common on face to face sales, but in PA for example it is required for handgun transfers to everyone other than direct family.
BADUNAME37
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B. D. Turner has a point!
Why lie?
He's right, be perfectly honest, you changed your mind right now about selling it.
If the guy asks you to tell him FIRST if you ever want to sell it, tell him there are TWO PEOPLE who have first takes.
Blame the second one on me, even though I have no use for it.
Why lie?
He's right, be perfectly honest, you changed your mind right now about selling it.
If the guy asks you to tell him FIRST if you ever want to sell it, tell him there are TWO PEOPLE who have first takes.
Blame the second one on me, even though I have no use for it.
Cosmoline
Member
"One day maybe" is NOT AN OFFER. No way, no how, not possible. Ain't gonna happen. So from what you describe there was no offer, and the acceptance was therefore invalid. Just make it extra clear the firearm is NFS, and that's the end of it.
If your gut tells you not to sell to this guy, DO NOT SELL TO HIM. Trust your instinct. Take this "social pressure" you seem worried about and drop kick it right in the teeth. Unless you're 15 you should be able to disregard such nonsense. There are people around the state I deal with, and others I would never deal with. There's noting immoral or illegal about that.
"I am sorry, but I do not recall the events as you have described them..."
"I can't do that, I promised to keep it for my Grandfather (insert valid person in place of GF) this hunting season..."
"The ATF has regulations regarding this so we have to do the transfer through an FFL..."
Pick any of the above.
"I can't do that, I promised to keep it for my Grandfather (insert valid person in place of GF) this hunting season..."
"The ATF has regulations regarding this so we have to do the transfer through an FFL..."
Pick any of the above.
Griz44
Member
As my local ATF agent told me, "If you so much as do not like the way someone parts their hair, you are not obligated to sell or transfer a weapon to them, use your gut instinct because not everything is as it seems."
If this is a private sale, and you need to politically complete the deal to keep the peace, let her (and him) know that you will not sell to her for him to use, and will only transfer to him at your local FFL dealers place, where an FBI background check will be done. That will probably be enough to kill it anyway, and if it doesn't, you have freed yourself of any responsibility from what he may do with it in the future. Let the FFL ask him the questions about mental stability and criminal history, that keeps you clean with the law and the young lady both.
If this is a private sale, and you need to politically complete the deal to keep the peace, let her (and him) know that you will not sell to her for him to use, and will only transfer to him at your local FFL dealers place, where an FBI background check will be done. That will probably be enough to kill it anyway, and if it doesn't, you have freed yourself of any responsibility from what he may do with it in the future. Let the FFL ask him the questions about mental stability and criminal history, that keeps you clean with the law and the young lady both.
BADUNAME37
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Griz44 has the best solution yet (as I see it).
cassandrasdaddy
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in my life i have ignored my "gut" many time. whilre not every time produced calamity more than enough did that i trust my gut today
Bill2e
Member
Interesting point. I would & think he is more concerned about the liabilty if something bad happens.
The NCIS check idea is a good one, if you want a record that you sold the gun. I personally don't like the idea of "My Gun" being out of my control.
mgkdrgn
Member
Another thought ... perhaps take him out to the range and show him that this isn't the tool for the job he has in mind?
Perhaps get some really "hot" loads for that gun ... maybe kind of make sure he doesn't hold it "quite" right so it spanks him good and hard? (pain can be a wonderful teaching aid!)
Then introduce him to a nice light shotgun load, make sure he fires that one correctly? Point out now he has a pattern, rather than just one bullet flying out there?
Perhaps get some really "hot" loads for that gun ... maybe kind of make sure he doesn't hold it "quite" right so it spanks him good and hard? (pain can be a wonderful teaching aid!)
Then introduce him to a nice light shotgun load, make sure he fires that one correctly? Point out now he has a pattern, rather than just one bullet flying out there?
rugerman07
Member
Tell her the truth, you think the guy is shy a few cards of a full deck and don't want to sell it to him.
BADUNAME37
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Personally, I wouldn't want to take a "newbie" to the range on my own.
I've seen the business end of a loaded gun swing by me more than enough times (even once is plenty enough).
I've seen the business end of a loaded gun swing by me more than enough times (even once is plenty enough).
If you are definitely selling it, then just tell him you have it promised to someone online, pending payment...or you're holding it for them until they get a paycheck. That's the easy part.
The more involved part is that if this guy really wants a firearm and you're really uncomfortable with him being armed, then you should educate him yourself until he doesn't worry you any more. Take him out to the range for safety/marksmanship instruction. Take him to social shooting situations, like matches, where there's a significant social pressure to conform to accepted safety rules. Hopefully, you'll then be able to help him find a good firearm and not be worried about the consequences. If he just doesn't shape up his gun-handling habits, you'll at least have done your best to help.
The more involved part is that if this guy really wants a firearm and you're really uncomfortable with him being armed, then you should educate him yourself until he doesn't worry you any more. Take him out to the range for safety/marksmanship instruction. Take him to social shooting situations, like matches, where there's a significant social pressure to conform to accepted safety rules. Hopefully, you'll then be able to help him find a good firearm and not be worried about the consequences. If he just doesn't shape up his gun-handling habits, you'll at least have done your best to help.
CSA 357
Member
Well First You Should Have Never Told Him About Selling It, Second I Only Show My Guns To People I Realy Trust, Just Tell Him/her The Gun Is No Longer For Sale, He Can Find A Sks Some Where Else
ReadyontheRight
Member
The OP stated that the person shows no interest or apparent ability in learning to be safe with a gun. I think deciding to not sell such a person your personal firearm is a FAR CRY from denying that person gun rights. I agree it's the right decision to follow your Spidey Sense. What if the idiot shoots someone? You will likely face charges or at least VERY close scrutiny of one type or another.
Point out that she can always go to a gun store and buy the same gun. I believe that it is legal to purchase a gun as a gift. Heck, you could even find one for her if you feel really bad. Probably best to just figure out a shop with the same gun and give her the phone number.
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Hypothetical: You show a friend of a friend one of your guns. He immediately takes it, points it at you and goes "bang" while laughing. You scold him and show him proper handling. He doesn't point it at you and go "bang" again, but he does keep sweeping you and others when you mistakenly let him handle it again.
When he asks you to take him to the shooting range or hunting, are you "Yet another "pro-gun" person with the attitude that he's good enough for guns, but another isn't."
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Tell her the rifle has been sold to some Right-wing guy on your favorite website.
You say "... and is not considered mentally ill (just intellectually challenged.. hehe)..." - are you the one who's mentally ill?! If it looks like a fish and stinks like a fish it's most likely a fish! If you're unsure of the situation, then you know better and should not go through with the sale. Doing anything else, for whatever reason, makes you as guilty as him should he use the gun in a crime. Your antenna are up for a reason - heed the warnings.
Aguila Blanca
Member
"Well, I didn't say I'd sell it to him, and he didn't say he'd buy it. That was all very hypothetical. Since we had that discussion, I've changed my mind and I'm not selling it [unsaid: "To him. Or you. Ever. At any price."]. But thanks for asking."
Hexi, if I were you, I'd make a contract/bill of sale saying that (Space for your name's) SKS rifle, serial number ####### is being sold to (space for him to sign) on (space for date and time), for $###. That you are not responsible for any injuries/deaths, accidental or intentional that may arise from the use of said SKS. I have this saved in my computer for if I ever sell any of my firearms, cars, or possibly deadly items.
Schmidlin
Member
simple and sweet...you decided to keep it.
jnyork
Member
Always listen to your gut, it is usually smarter than your head. Keep the gun.
bradm
Member
Unfortunately, I'm in California where there is no legal way to transfer a gun (other than a C&R) without going through an FFL. I assumed that New York was just as bad - maybe that was wishful thinking on my part - misery loves company.
brad
thunder173
Member
Sorry,...already sold it to my cousin.....
OP
OP
hexidismal
Member
Note from the original poster (Me)
First off I'd like to thank you all for your suggestions. Many of them were very good, and as always I appreciate the camaraderie here on THR.
I think my thread here (and mind you I'm saying it's due entirely to the way I posted it) came across a little bit wrong. There's plenty of good options, and actually I had already pretty much decided on a course of action at the time of posting. I planned on suggesting to him that there were better options in firearms for a similar price. Oh BTW, he was already aware of the price I was asking. Anyway, along with that suggestion, I had also planned to offer help in choosing a firearm in a similar price range more suited to his purpose and experience, as well as my time and instruction for proper use and safety via range time. Heck, I figured I might even finagle it so that he buys ammo enough for both of us.. maybe.. just a thought.. you know.. uh.. times are tough
The point is, my intention with the thread was really only to see what all of you would do in a similar situation, and to see if anything similar had come up in all of your extensive experiences.
Thanks again for all of your thoughts.
-JT
oh and P.S.
OUCH ! I thought I was pretty clear, that wasn't the case. Maybe not clear enough.
First off I'd like to thank you all for your suggestions. Many of them were very good, and as always I appreciate the camaraderie here on THR.
I think my thread here (and mind you I'm saying it's due entirely to the way I posted it) came across a little bit wrong. There's plenty of good options, and actually I had already pretty much decided on a course of action at the time of posting. I planned on suggesting to him that there were better options in firearms for a similar price. Oh BTW, he was already aware of the price I was asking. Anyway, along with that suggestion, I had also planned to offer help in choosing a firearm in a similar price range more suited to his purpose and experience, as well as my time and instruction for proper use and safety via range time. Heck, I figured I might even finagle it so that he buys ammo enough for both of us.. maybe.. just a thought.. you know.. uh.. times are tough
The point is, my intention with the thread was really only to see what all of you would do in a similar situation, and to see if anything similar had come up in all of your extensive experiences.
Thanks again for all of your thoughts.
-JT
oh and P.S.
OUCH ! I thought I was pretty clear, that wasn't the case. Maybe not clear enough.
You've already made the ethical judgment - the only question remaining is a question of honor - do you abide by your ethics in the face of mild social disapproval and monetary gain or not?
I know this seems rather blunt - but hiding behind the law (using an FFL to convey a weapon to man who you've already judged to be untrustworthy with a weapon) is just a dodge.
To me this is one of those times you look into yourself and decide what kind of man you are.
I see BS questions all the time on THR about "Are a rifleman or a cook?" - that's mostly testosterone pandering to my mind. The question you face int this post is far deeper and more important, are you a man of principle or not?
One option, should you choose to honor your principles, would be to explain that you are not comfortable selling a weapon to someone who does not appear to be well trained with weapons, and invite him to go shooting with you. If after you have been shooting with him a number of times you decide he's trustworthy, then you can sell the weapon to him with a clean conscience.
All this sounds harsh, I know. But since you have already decided that he's not trustworthy with a gun, your choice is pretty simple.
Mike
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