what do you think of the push dagger?

[uspJ]

so i was wondering why does the push dagger get made fun of. i've seen and heard alot of people make fun of them and disregard their practicality as defensive weapon. i carry a small cold steel one on my keychain and bought one for a female friend of mine to do the same. when someone sees it hanging from my keychain i usually get laughs and comments about what a cute little toy or how those are useless and should just carry a real knife.

personally i see it as an exellent defensive weapon when caught off guard or in an area a firearm is not permitted. it's quickly deployable, easily concealable and is simple to use using gross motor skills (if you can punch you can use it).

so, what is the high road's opinion of the push dagger? practical defensive tool or tacticool novelty only mall ninjas would keep handy.

 

[Maelstrom]

personally i see it as an exellent defensive weapon when caught off guard or in an area a firearm is not permitted.

Nothing is certain but death and taxes.....oh, and that any place where you can't carry a gun, you likely can't carry a dagger either.

In fact, I'd love to hear of an instance where daggers are allowed but guns aren't.

 

[7X57chilmau]

Well..... I think a knife is a workable last-ditch defensive weapon.... But it generally would rank pretty far down the ladder of possibilities.... Usually, but not always, below the humble stick....

A push dagger is, to me, an OK knife for the purpose, as such things go.... But it's limitations would stop me from carrying one even if they were legal here. Push daggers are specifically outlawed in several jurisdictions.

Compared to a more general-purpose knife, they limit your reach a few inches, and they're limited in how they may be used in a fight.... Basically OK stabbing weapons, but lacking in the slash....

To me, though, this one's the deal breaker: A push dagger is almost useless for anything beyond poking holes in folks.... Whereas a more general purpose knife, folding or fixed, is a genuinely useful TOOL. I've carried a knife for over 20 years, damned near every day. I've used one on most of those days. I've never used one in a self defense situation. To me, that's 6000:1 in favour of a general purpose knife with SD capabilities. I don't like carrying things just to carry them.... They must be useful.

J

 

[shockwave]

The problem I have with push daggers is the handle. There's no way to get a solid grip on them. A karambit, or emei piercers, or a judge's pens are all proven combat tools that won't flip or twist in your hand, potentially cutting your own fingers.

If you look at some of these push daggers from yesteryear, you'll see that they were designed to solve the stability problem.

 

[JShirley]

Push daggers are illegal in many states. They are also of limited utility, even as fighters, because of the handle.

Personally, I think a MiniMaglite-sized AA or 123 flashlight has more defensive utility, and is legal everywhere.

J

 

[MCgunner]

I wouldn't take one to a gun fight.

 

[uspJ]

Nothing is certain but death and taxes.....oh, and that any place where you can't carry a gun, you likely can't carry a dagger either.

In fact, I'd love to hear of an instance where daggers are allowed but guns aren't.

does your job allow you to carry a firearm? mine doesn't but doesn't care about a knife being brought on the grounds.

Compared to a more general-purpose knife, they limit your reach a few inches, and they're limited in how they may be used in a fight.... Basically OK stabbing weapons, but lacking in the slash....

agreed. i carry a general purpose knife daily, never leave home without it. if i had time and knew a threat was approaching i would most definitely go for it first if a firearm was not an option.

To me, though, this one's the deal breaker: A push dagger is almost useless for anything beyond poking holes in folks.... Whereas a more general purpose knife, folding or fixed, is a genuinely useful TOOL. I've carried a knife for over 20 years, damned near every day. I've used one on most of those days. I've never used one in a self defense situation. To me, that's 6000:1 in favour of a general purpose knife with SD capabilities. I don't like carrying things just to carry them.... They must be useful.

the one i carry is around 2.5 in. total length and fits on my keychain. which makes it very convenient to carry, if it wasn't convenient i would not carry it. i agree that it is a very limited usage weapon as you stated its only good for putting holes in folks.

 

[auschip]

tacticool novelty only mall ninjas would keep handy.

This

 

[JShirley]

uspJ,

So- are you here to solicit opinions- as you stated- or defend what you've already chosen to carry? I, too, used to carry a tiny little Cold Steel push dagger on my keychain. (I did actually use it for some things, too.)

I have also seen people react negatively to that tiny little knife, when a larger folder brought no reaction at all.

If you've made up your mind, go with god. Just don't get upset if you ask why some of us don't care for them, and we actually, you know, answer.

John

 

[Jonah71]

I'm so afraid of getting cut again I have no plans on ever carrying a knife. Getting cut sucks. It would piss me off even more if it happened with my own knife. Which it probably would. The only thing I'm good at with a knife is filleting crappie.

 

[Maelstrom]

does your job allow you to carry a firearm? mine doesn't but doesn't care about a knife being brought on the grounds.

I'm not referring to job rules, I'm referring to state's laws.

 

[bikerdoc]

On my key ring I have a small 2.75 inch Schade Imperial one blade, with a a one hand opening hole. Very useful, very non threatening. works for me.

I have said in other threads that I am not a fan of push knives. Just my opinion only.

 

[ForumSurfer]

I see them as a novelty IMO. If you study serious knife fighting tactics, you'll find the optimum grip on a knife isn't push dagger style. Plus I guarantee you I can draw my benchmade folders (or auto openers) faster from my front or back pocket faster than you can get that attention grabbing push dagger off of your keychain. I prefer more stealthy folders or auto openers. Dead reliable in a knife fight and stealthy.

Plus, think about it like this: The last time you were in a fight, remember how easy it could be to avoid that first punch if you see it coming? Now if you're swinging a knife proper, there's an extra few inches of blade on that swing and you have to duck an awkward attack altogether.

If it makes you feel safer, carry it though...to each his own.

 

[Gunfighter123]

I don't own one but I've seen some VERY NICE custom push daggers with blades as long as 8"-12" !!!!

IF and a BIG IF , I was to have one --- I would want the "orthopedic" type handle where the blade fits between your index and "bird" finger rather then your "bird" and ring finger.

However , I would not just write them off as "junk" or ineffective ---- MANY thugs/BGs have lots of hours in boxing and sparring --- not really "trained" but have learned the basics ---- I would NOT be happy about faceing someone who has good footwork and a FAST JAB if they have a push dagger !!!!

The last time you were in a fight, remember how easy it could be to avoid that first punch if you see it coming?

And the MAIN WORD in that sentence is IF --- but I will ask this " remember the last time you were in a fight and never got touched/hit ??


EDIT --- I would think that a plus in their favor is they would be very hard to kick/slap/twist out of someones hand.

 

[BHP FAN]

I think some of those old Barbary Coast,San Francisco daggers are elegant,and would love to make replicas and collect them...if they weren't illegal in California...ironic,much?

 

[ForumSurfer]

I would think that a plus in their favor is they would be very hard to kick/slap/twist out of someones hand.

Agreed.

But my preference would be a nice folder due to my dress. My shirt doesn't covers my pocket, so I can have that Benchmade out and open in one foul swoop. In my case, I'd keep a fixed blade or a dagger concealed in my pocket or under a garment. For me, a quality locking folder is just a better option, and discreet to boot. Not only that, I can actually use a folder in my day to day activities. Admittedly, most people (myself included) are probably pushing their legal limits, if not exceeding them with folders that are too large. The little "open" and "closed" length caveats are sometimes extreme. In my state, as a CCW permit holder, this doesn't make me exempt. I can carry any handgun I want, as long as it is concealed completely...but I can't carry an 8" locking knife.

 

[hso]

The choice of a push dagger may be debatable as a defensive knife, but the little CS push dagger is more of a novelty than any sort of practical defensive weapon. The blade is too small, the penetration too shallow. Small knives need to be able to slash to get the maximum defensive utility. Little knives are too limited when they're only designed to stab. You'd be better off with a Bic pen.

 

[zignal_zero]

my friends agency encouraged all their deputies to carry push daggers.

i see pro's an con's to them. first let me say that i DO consider knives a viable tool for SD and would prefer one to a stick. also, i would rather my opponent be armed with a stick than a knife.

MY OPINION - they're limited slashers and their (usual) length makes them limited thrusters. their design makes the penalty for mechanical failure higher - you're punching the blade, if the portion between the handle and blade breaks.

they would definately compliment a jab, but so would the metallic knuckles i keep in my left jacket pocket just for that purpose

all in all, i recognize their benefit, but consider it significantly less than a traditional fixed blade.

 

[ForumSurfer]

Every SF person I ever met (oh noes, another "SF" guy thread! :banghead: but seriously, several ex SF\blackwater type guys) recommended these for backup duty. Their easier to grab, hold and retain. The object of a backup knife is to stop an attacker or fight your way to your gun. Again, everyone I've met that was professionally trained recommended slashing weapons like these as opposed to stabbing. Preferably a a fixed blade boot knife type weapon, but these make a more respectable duty belt weapon. A strong slash from these do abdominal area damage due to the curvature of the blade and your ability to actually retain the weapon once it grabs huge chunks of flash. IMO, a push dagger would twist out of your hand once it gets into the flesh past the blade portion. Knives like the on pictured are not designed to penetrate to the hilt, leaving nothing but cutting edge exposed. Trust me, do a google search for serrated knife wounds...they do enough tearing to stop an attack, more so than stabbing. Of course that isn't to say that a push dagger wouldn't do plenty of damage if you can get your opponent pinned and get in a quick succession of rabbit punch/stabs.

Again, I'm no expert...strictly how I see it. A push dagger is a fine defensive weapon, I just see better alternatives in my eyes.

 

[auschip]

My shame

OK, you guys are forcing me to show the shame of my knife collection. I own a Cold Steel (Steal) Mini Pal. I was 18 years young, and just started buying (what I thought) were good knives. As I was thumbing through the latest SMKW catalog, I saw what I thought was a cool useful knife. I think I paid $12.99 for it. I carried this useless hunk on my keychain for about 6 months. During that time it fell off my keychain at least twice, and dropped out of the "sheath" multiple times. Like a bad penny, I kept finding it. :banghead:

Exhibit 1


Now, why do I consider it so bad? The handle can best be described as terrible. Even gripping as tight as possible you get up and down movement because the handle is too small. However, even if it had a nice comfortable handle, the blade is tiny.

Exhibit 2


Excuse the bad photography, but I was shooting one handed with little to no light.

So, while I gave a flip answer previously, it wasn't without at least a little experience backing it up. And now you know the shame of my knife collection. Let us never mention this little revelation again. Please!

 

[hso]

A full size push dagger with a well designed grip can be an effective self defense weapon within it's limitations, but there are significant limitations. The limitations on a miniature push dagger are just too great.

 

[JShirley]

Let me also say I like the little Kabars better than traditional push daggers- same with the Spyderco SWICK.

 

[uspJ]

thanks for the responses.

this gives me some things to think about. i've got a karmabit coming in the mail this week so i'll most likely be tossing the little pushdagger for something more substantial.

 

[jahwarrior]

push daggers are very task-specific knives; they have no real utility use, at least for me, but are fantastic for self defense. the little keychain types aren't much use, but i still wouldn't want to get cut with one.

i own an older Cold Steel Safekeeper II. it slashes as well as it stabs; i've tested it on pork, and leather, and some other things. it's not something i carry often, because of legalities, and i have pocket folders that have blades at least as long as the push dagger, and i can use them for things besides self defense.



another knife i have can be considered a push dagger; it's a utility HAK. i carry this every day, because i have no real reason not to. it's small and light enough that i can wear it all day, and not notice it. i actually do get some use out of it. the design is like a combination of a push dagger, box cutter, and a La Grifee-styled knife. because the fingers go through the knife, it's a pretty secure grip. at work, i have to cut open alot of boxes, and cut other items, so constantly taking a kife from my pocket, opening it, closing it, etc., gets to be a pain. i can wear this without having to put it down, and still do tasks that require dexterity, like typing, or driving a forklift.

 

[The Highlander]

For speed, utility, and legal reasons you'd be much better off with a waved endura or delica in a speed dialer. I can't think of many states that even allow push daggers.