what do you think of the push dagger?

[DDeegs]

I carried a cold steel safe keeper III, for about 10 years behind my mag pouches on my gun belt, was there for hand gun retention, but with the single edge could be used for utility use.

Dan

 

[JShirley]

I also like the HAK design better than traditional push daggers.

 

[jahwarrior]

i don't usually carry the Safe Keeper. the HAK isn't really a push dagger, so i can carry it freely. i've dealt with police, who were fascinated by it; one asked me where to get one, so i gavehime the website.

 

[auschip]

I also have the HAK & the Swick. Far and away I think they are better designed and more useful.

 

[Beelzy]

I think enough of them to own a nice stealthy one.

 

[Deltaboy1984]

The HAK looks really neat!!!

 

[saltydog452]

Short blades aren't awful.

Like a mouse gun, accessability and discretion is its strong suit.

salty

 

[DutchmanDick]

If I was to choose a push dagger, it would be THIS one (from my collection):



Of course, with a 10-1/2" blade it's a bit more difficult to conceal, but it would seriously ruin an attacker's day. Plus, due to the blade design, it's actually very light and quick for its size, yet it was designed to defeat chainmail armor.

Origin: southern India (19th century).

 

[Gunfighter123]

DD ---- I think that is called a "Katar" ????

 

[DutchmanDick]

You got it. Just a push dagger on steroids...

 

[elmerfudd]

I think the real problem with push daggers is that they're:

1) Unusual and sinister looking.
2) Have very little practical purpose except hand to hand combat.
3) Are often illegal.

If I'm on the job and I get stopped by a supervisor or a customer, I'm going to have trouble explaining a push dagger. A folder with a thumb stud on the other hand is no big deal. "It's just a pocket knife. I use it to open boxes and cut cord and stuff." I won't lose my job or get written up for having a pocket knife.

If I get stopped by a cop, same thing. "I use it for opening boxes, cleaning fish, etc..." I'm much less likely to get the full gestapo treatment if I'm carrying a knife with a thumb stud.

The fact that a knife is a utilitarian tool and not just a weapon means that most of us can come up with a good reason for carrying one aside from self defense and that's important to some people. If you are carrying a weapon for self defense however, it seems very desirable to me that that weapon be somewhat socially acceptable. Properly concealed handguns and pepper spray are two examples of such weapons. People know why you're carrying them, but if they were shown to a jury they wouldn't look unusual. A push dagger on the other hand would just look bad in court.

I've got a gut feeling that upon finding a push dagger cops would suddenly want to pat you down, search your car and run a background check. If you used it for defense, a prosecutor would be far more likely to put you on trial and a jury would be far more likely to convict you.

 

[jahwarrior]

if i had to use a knife for self defense, i think the last thing i'm going to worry about is how scary the knife will look to a jury. it's no different than a gun. people worry carrying a "socially acceptable" gun or caliber, and it's ridiculous.

 

[shockwave]

The Spyderco Swick is a good design and you the metal is good. This review of the HAK leaves me wondering many things. (and laughing out loud.)

 

[jahwarrior]

that has to be one of the worst reviews i've ever read about a HAK. not because of the product, but because that idiot chose to make light of Frontsight's misfortunes.

 

[hso]

It's also one of the most moronic reviews of a knife ever written by someone banned from THR.

Complaining about the blade length is as stupid as complaining that the Miata you bought is "too small" for a 6'6" tall jerk. What did the guy think, that he was ordering an Ang Kola from HI?

 

[jahwarrior]

well, i guess that would explain it!

 

[Earthbound Engineer]

In fact, I'd love to hear of an instance where daggers are allowed but guns aren't.

I know this is an old thread, but in the state of Illinois, you can't carry a firearm if you're not law enforcement...period. >=(

However, the smaller Cold Steel push daggers are only sharpened on one side, therefore they are not classified as daggers and can be carried.

I, for one, think that a push dagger is an excellent last-ditch sort of weapon, but I would never carry it as my primary source of defense. For that matter, no one should ever rely on one source of defense.

 

[zignal_zero]

In fact, I'd love to hear of an instance where daggers are allowed but guns aren't

well, since someonelse already revived this thread and you said you'd 'love to hear', figured i'd give ya one: openly carried daggers are legal, in FL, openly carried firearms are not.

 

[JJE]

I think some of those old Barbary Coast,San Francisco daggers are elegant,and would love to make replicas and collect them...if they weren't illegal in California...ironic,much?

In fact, I'd love to hear of an instance where daggers are allowed but guns aren't.

Push daggers aren't illegal in California. Fixed blade knives may not be concealed, but there is no state prohibition against double-edged blades, blades of any length, serrations, etc. Some municipalities may have stricter laws, but in most of the state, you can legally carry a non-concealed double-edged blade of any length.

On the other hand, folding blades of any length (yes, even double-edged) MAY be concealed. Again, some municipalities have blade-length or other restrictions. For example - Oakland requires a sub-3" blade length, although the Muni Code allows that someone prosecuted for carrying a longer blade may argue that they were doing so for work or "lawful recreation" so it isn't a complete prohibition.

CA doesn't allow loaded, open carry in public, so YES, in CA you can carry an unconcealed dagger (except in certain municipalities), but not an unconcealed, loaded handgun.

 

[ksbsnowowl]

Originally Posted by Maelstrom

In fact, I'd love to hear of an instance where daggers are allowed but guns aren't.

I'll also add to the list. In Missouri, a CCW license is a weapons license, not just a gun license. A CCW permit allows you to carry daggers, etc (still no switch blades), though local ordinance can still restrict them.

Here's the interesting part - the CCW law allows private businesses to post signs prohibiting the carry of concealed firearms into their business. It ONLY allows them to prohibit firearms. They cannot prohibit the knives that you are now allowed to carry.

 

[Creature]

Interesting discussion here about the pros and cons of the push-dagger for selfdefense:

http://martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=38553

Something I hadn't considered is that it is quite difficult to disarm someone with a push-dagger.

 

[lemaymiami]

I've read all the comments on this thread and thought I'd add my own.

First off a push dagger is probably better than a can opener, a box cutter (maybe), or a broken bottle (that might not hold up long enough) - but I'd rather have an ordinary folder with a really sharp blade anytime.

I was taught many years ago that the downside of knives is that you had to get entirely too close and your opponent might not like being cut or stabbed...

As a cop I interviewed more than one witness to a knife incident and most of them never saw the knife that was in use (most described the assailant as "punching the victim").

Any opponent with a knife (trained or un-skilled with any kind of blade) is a dangerous individual and needs to be treated as such. We taught all of our officers by demonstration that anyone armed with a knife could reach them before they could draw their sidearm if allowed to get closer than 7 yards in a confrontation. The only ones that were able to beat that distance and successfully draw their weapon before being attacked were actually running backwards while doing so....

While a small concealed blade may provide some peace of mind or confidence for the person that's so equipped, a bit of common sense and caution might serve them far better.... In extreme circumstances there are probably a lot more effective things that will serve as a weapon close at hand if you think about it.

Anyone that knows how to use a blade for offense or defense already knows all of this...

 

[BHP FAN]

I've always thought the Indian Katar was kinda cool.

 

[Mrdavidross321]

the legal issues aside i LOVE push dagger altho some are more funny shaped mall ninjaish like Mantis' BK-1 Wicked but i am a fan of the overall push blade/dagger design.. i see why alot of people would say they suck for utility but most "daggers" are... most of them feel fine in my hand and about twisting in the hand Cold Steels Urban Pal may be on that road but a bigger and better handled Tops Grim Ripper has good control
i gotta say tho both Ka-Bar's TDI line and the Hide Away Knives are both great self defence knives and more reasonable to EDC

 

[TimboKhan]

I am not going to lie.... I like push daggers. I think they look cool, and I enjoy pretending to be Wolverine.

Still, I don't know that I would want one for a weapon for any of a variety of the reasons already mentioned. A larger push dagger would seem to have some uses, but as Hso said, it is a little limited. Philosophically, I also can't really justify carrying one around: I consider a knife a tool, and there just isn't a lot that can be done with a push dagger that the average folder can't do about a thousand times better.

Still, I admit that the aesthetic appeals to me. Maybe that is the little bit of mall ninjutsu that lives deep within my soul manifesting itself....