Discussion in 'Strategies, Tactics and Training' started by old lady new shooter, Nov 26, 2018.
Please quote a single post from this thread that made that statement.
So you've taken reasoning that you know is flawed and used it to support your point.
My point is that of the officers involved in fatal shootings, 10% are blue-on-blue. So "flaging " yourself as a "good guy" which will likely call attention to yourself, improves you chances of being shot from 100% to 90%
As a retired LEO,all that I can add = and I promise that is THE END is.
Y'all do as you please and please do continue to think as you do.
My 1* is all I have and I know how to handle that one.
I based my comments and truths on knowledge and fact.
AND on asking and checking with the many LEO's that I still know.
Tragedies happen under stress.
Truly a tragedy, hit by 5 shots from the BG but killed by one shot from a fellow LEO. That highwaypatrolman must be devastated.
It sounds like two choices, bad and worse. While I'd like to save others, my first obligation is to my sons, who would be in real trouble if something happened to me, especially my youngest. I'd take that oportunity to leave with the understanding that not taking the shot and potentially saving people would haunt me.
There are always choices of course. Consider though that in an instance like that, the choices very well may not be run or shoot. The choices may be shoot and get shot or just get shot in the back. Given the scenario at hand, where you have a clear shot at the killer, which also means he very well might have or can quickly attain a clear shot at you, it's entirely possible that you get shot as you run away. Remember, we're not talking about a situation where you've heard shots, or been told there's a killer, or seen him/her in passing at a distance or something. You're actually close enough to have a clear shot at them. Also, consider that most mass killers stop killing others almost immediately when they meet effective resistance.
Understood. This is one of those what if scenarios that could play out any number of ways, and the only definative thing I can tell you is that I’d put my son’s welfare first.
Here's another cautionary tale for the civilian permit type:
The 'good guy' could have shot a 'good guy' and then got hosed by the law. All kinds of mistakes by the civilian.
Here's a take on how police need to consider the armed civilian:
Personally in the scenario described in the first link I would call 911.
The only type of scenario I can think of where the participants are not known to me where I would try to act would be something like a case where G-d forbid someone is stomping on a small child, or a uniformed police officer is losing a fight with a BG and ASKS for help like in that case last year.
Something very similar to old lady new shooter's scenario happened in my neck o' the woods recently. A young man entered a restaurant and started shooting people. Two local men grabbed their guns and shot the perpetrator dead, at which point he became incapable of continuing his assault.
Police shoot over two dozen dogs a day in this country. The courts have ruled that this is not unreasonable seizure and the police have no liability if they shoot your dog. Even if they shoot your four year old girl as they shoot your dog: https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/22/cop-shoots-girl-dog_n_7637456.html
There is a cop involved shooting every week with dozens or even hundreds of rounds being fired. Like this one in which cops fired 107 rounds into a car to wound an unarmed middle aged women, and were not charged: https://thefreethoughtproject.com/c...bullets-innocent-mom-daughter-dorner-manhunt/
And then there is murder of Daniel Shaver and the subsequent acquittal of the officers involved. https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-daniel-shaver-police-video-20171208-story.html
It is not opinion or conjecture to state that there is a problem with the police in this country. It is simply a fact. You can spend half an hour searching the Internet and find hundreds of cases where police shoot the wrong person. I don't know a single person who feels protected or served around the police. I know people who don't even have a traffic ticket on their record, who don't drink or even swear, and they still don't like the police. The police exist to extort and control--they collect revenue for the state and force compliance to state authority. They don't care about your safety, they aren't there to help, and they are not your friends. Dozens of rape kits sit untested in your local police station because there is no profit in chasing down rapists, so manpower and assets are put to more profitable endeavors, like chasing pot heads.
The police are a large part of the problem and I am tired of hearing about how difficult their job is even as this country becomes a police state. The Four Rules of firearms safety are pretty simple and common sense. Police should be held to at least the same standards of proficiency and safety with a firearm as everyone else. This means they should be just as responsible for identifying their target and beyond, and shooting the right person, as everyone else. Instead, we live in a country where armed professionals get away with murder by claiming they were in fear for their lives, but unarmed civilians with no training are expected to remain calm and composed while having a gun pointed at them. Where the police have less strictly enforced Rules of Engagement than Marines in a combat zone. Where police can steal your stuff and you have to prove at your own expense that is wasn't purchased using drug money. Where they can and will shoot your dog without consequence for no reason. Our society allows sadists and bullies to hide behind a tin badge. Nothing is more American than a healthy skepticism of state authority. But this goes beyond skepticism.
We are right to hate the police. They've earned it.
Authority without accountability is tyranny.
I heard a CCW class instructor explain the strategy of "leaving" this way: It is those other people's responsibility to defend themselves.
I think in any real scenario, you have to make up your own mind what you are going to do. But the intention of carrying concealed to become some kind of hero that provides security for other people in public is ill-advised. Know with certainty exactly who it is you are protecting and why (for example, your wife and kids who are with you), and leave other people to themselves. The best security you can provide strangers is to advise them to provide for their own security needs. They should be aware that police are not obligated to provide them security, and that strangers carrying concealed will not either. They need to take responsibility for themselves.
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