Quantcast

What if...

Discussion in 'Strategies, Tactics and Training' started by old lady new shooter, Nov 26, 2018.

  1. bearcreek

    bearcreek Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2009
    Messages:
    1,327
    Location:
    NE Ohio
    Please quote a single post from this thread that made that statement.
     
  2. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2002
    Messages:
    21,051
    Location:
    northern california
    So you've taken reasoning that you know is flawed and used it to support your point. :oops:

    My point is that of the officers involved in fatal shootings, 10% are blue-on-blue. So "flaging " yourself as a "good guy" which will likely call attention to yourself, improves you chances of being shot from 100% to 90%
     
  3. scaatylobo

    scaatylobo Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2010
    Messages:
    2,035
    Location:
    Western NYS
    As a retired LEO,all that I can add = and I promise that is THE END is.

    Y'all do as you please and please do continue to think as you do.

    My 1* is all I have and I know how to handle that one.

    I based my comments and truths on knowledge and fact.

    AND on asking and checking with the many LEO's that I still know.

    Adios.
     
  4. GEM

    GEM Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2004
    Messages:
    5,296
    Location:
    TX
  5. old lady new shooter

    old lady new shooter Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2015
    Messages:
    8,042
  6. TomJ
    • Contributing Member

    TomJ Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2014
    Messages:
    1,638
    Location:
    Illinois
    It sounds like two choices, bad and worse. While I'd like to save others, my first obligation is to my sons, who would be in real trouble if something happened to me, especially my youngest. I'd take that oportunity to leave with the understanding that not taking the shot and potentially saving people would haunt me.
     
  7. bearcreek

    bearcreek Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2009
    Messages:
    1,327
    Location:
    NE Ohio
    There are always choices of course. Consider though that in an instance like that, the choices very well may not be run or shoot. The choices may be shoot and get shot or just get shot in the back. Given the scenario at hand, where you have a clear shot at the killer, which also means he very well might have or can quickly attain a clear shot at you, it's entirely possible that you get shot as you run away. Remember, we're not talking about a situation where you've heard shots, or been told there's a killer, or seen him/her in passing at a distance or something. You're actually close enough to have a clear shot at them. Also, consider that most mass killers stop killing others almost immediately when they meet effective resistance.
     
  8. TomJ
    • Contributing Member

    TomJ Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2014
    Messages:
    1,638
    Location:
    Illinois
    Understood. This is one of those what if scenarios that could play out any number of ways, and the only definative thing I can tell you is that I’d put my son’s welfare first.
     
  9. GEM

    GEM Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2004
    Messages:
    5,296
    Location:
    TX
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2018
    bearcreek likes this.
  10. old lady new shooter

    old lady new shooter Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2015
    Messages:
    8,042
    Personally in the scenario described in the first link I would call 911.

    The only type of scenario I can think of where the participants are not known to me where I would try to act would be something like a case where G-d forbid someone is stomping on a small child, or a uniformed police officer is losing a fight with a BG and ASKS for help like in that case last year.
     
  11. Mikhail Weiss

    Mikhail Weiss Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2009
    Messages:
    415
    Something very similar to old lady new shooter's scenario happened in my neck o' the woods recently. A young man entered a restaurant and started shooting people. Two local men grabbed their guns and shot the perpetrator dead, at which point he became incapable of continuing his assault.
     
  12. MTMilitiaman

    MTMilitiaman Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2005
    Messages:
    3,061
    Location:
    Missoula, Montana
    Police shoot over two dozen dogs a day in this country. The courts have ruled that this is not unreasonable seizure and the police have no liability if they shoot your dog. Even if they shoot your four year old girl as they shoot your dog: https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/22/cop-shoots-girl-dog_n_7637456.html

    There is a cop involved shooting every week with dozens or even hundreds of rounds being fired. Like this one in which cops fired 107 rounds into a car to wound an unarmed middle aged women, and were not charged: https://thefreethoughtproject.com/c...bullets-innocent-mom-daughter-dorner-manhunt/

    And then there is murder of Daniel Shaver and the subsequent acquittal of the officers involved. https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-daniel-shaver-police-video-20171208-story.html

    It is not opinion or conjecture to state that there is a problem with the police in this country. It is simply a fact. You can spend half an hour searching the Internet and find hundreds of cases where police shoot the wrong person. I don't know a single person who feels protected or served around the police. I know people who don't even have a traffic ticket on their record, who don't drink or even swear, and they still don't like the police. The police exist to extort and control--they collect revenue for the state and force compliance to state authority. They don't care about your safety, they aren't there to help, and they are not your friends. Dozens of rape kits sit untested in your local police station because there is no profit in chasing down rapists, so manpower and assets are put to more profitable endeavors, like chasing pot heads.

    The police are a large part of the problem and I am tired of hearing about how difficult their job is even as this country becomes a police state. The Four Rules of firearms safety are pretty simple and common sense. Police should be held to at least the same standards of proficiency and safety with a firearm as everyone else. This means they should be just as responsible for identifying their target and beyond, and shooting the right person, as everyone else. Instead, we live in a country where armed professionals get away with murder by claiming they were in fear for their lives, but unarmed civilians with no training are expected to remain calm and composed while having a gun pointed at them. Where the police have less strictly enforced Rules of Engagement than Marines in a combat zone. Where police can steal your stuff and you have to prove at your own expense that is wasn't purchased using drug money. Where they can and will shoot your dog without consequence for no reason. Our society allows sadists and bullies to hide behind a tin badge. Nothing is more American than a healthy skepticism of state authority. But this goes beyond skepticism.

    We are right to hate the police. They've earned it.

    Authority without accountability is tyranny.
     
  13. labnoti

    labnoti Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2018
    Messages:
    741
    I heard a CCW class instructor explain the strategy of "leaving" this way: It is those other people's responsibility to defend themselves.

    I think in any real scenario, you have to make up your own mind what you are going to do. But the intention of carrying concealed to become some kind of hero that provides security for other people in public is ill-advised. Know with certainty exactly who it is you are protecting and why (for example, your wife and kids who are with you), and leave other people to themselves. The best security you can provide strangers is to advise them to provide for their own security needs. They should be aware that police are not obligated to provide them security, and that strangers carrying concealed will not either. They need to take responsibility for themselves.
     
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice