Capacity. How much does it matter to you?

[aarondhgraham]

...As it is choosing the pistol I want to carry and living with that capacity.

How might one ensure a high likelihood for the latter in the gravest extreme?

One can't ensure "living" in any encounter of the gravest extreme,,,
All a person can do is prepare, practice, and hope for the best.

Please tell me that you're not one of the people who say,,,
If you can't carry a full size duty pistol,,,
You shouldn't carry at all.

Aarond

.

 

[tipoc]

I can't answer the ops question because it's situational for what and when I carry. So number of rounds carried change.The degree of concealment being a factor. What I plan to do that day also being a factor.

I also don't always carry so the question isn't posed. I figured, based on ample experience, that a gun is down on the list of defensive tools I may need.

In the occasions where I've been in danger for periods of time than I've carried with either 13 rounds or 15 round in the mag. That's been rare. Other wise 5 or 6 has been the minimum.

 

[mcb]

And you should.

Good idea.

Just how far do you think you would be really be able to move in that time interval?

That sounds to me like fantasy based on imagination.

How is that fantasy? Once you have made the decision the lethal force is required your going to shoot at the threat, you are going to move away from the threat if you can, you are going to reload if required. You will continue to do that until you either succeed or fail. What else is there in a self defense situation?

 

[Kleanbore]

How is that fantasy? Once you have made the decision the lethal force is required your going to shoot at the threat, you are going to move away from the threat if you can, you are going to reload if required.

It's the idea that one will be able to "reload of required" if someone is trying to kill you that doesn't pass the smell test.

Try it in a well supervised FoF training situation, using Simunitions or AirSoft.

See if the "bad guy" or "bad guys" give you time to reload.

 

[Corpral_Agarn]

Good luck.

?

Same to you?

 

[Kleanbore]

One can't ensure "living" in any encounter of the gravest extreme,,,

I spoke of ensuring a high likelihood.

Please tell me that you're not one of the people who say,,,
If you can't carry a full size duty pistol,,,
You shouldn't carry at all.

I am not. But if it is convenient, that's the best idea.

 

[Kleanbore]

Same to you?

Good luck was intended in the good sense, not "good luck with that".

 

[Hartkopf]

16 rounds minimum for me with a Glock 22

18 to 29 rounds most of the time. Glock 17 + a BUG.

I've seen way to many freak things happen in my life and carrying a Glock 17 is easy for me so no reason to limit myself to less rounds.

Hiding behind a wall of lead is about 10th in line on my plan of action, but I want the option if needed.

As said many times, bad guys run in packs.

 

[mcb]

It's the idea that one will be able to "reload of required" if someone is trying to kill you that doesn't pass the smell test.

Try it in a well supervised FoF training situation, using Simunitions or AirSoft.

See if the "bad guy" or "bad guys" give you time to reload.

They most certainly will not give you time to reload. Hence high capacity guns. And more importantly the need to be moving (preferable before the shooting starts if your situation awareness is working) to hopefully escape the situation, or at least achieve cover or build space so you have time and space to do defend yourself including the reload if required. When your gun goes empty if you are still threatened you have to attempt to reload, or die, your choice.

And yes I realize how unlikely that is in a self defense situations. But if you carry a reload you might as well practice it. And reload practices are fun.

 

[WrongHanded]

Up until fairly recently, I'd mainly carried revolvers or single stack semi autos. I switched out guns a lot for different activities, and used a variety of carry methods.

I considered myself competent with the guns I chose to carry. I also considered myself reasonably fast at drawing from various concealment locations.

I knew that a polymer double stack was the practical choice, but I just was never really as good or as comfortable with them as I've been with revolvers and DA/SA Sigs.

I finally sucked it up. Got a G23 and then a G22, and converted them to .357 Sig. Then I started practicing with them. I also started carrying strong side OWB almost exclusively. Now I have a shot timer, and am starting to really work on getting good with the Glock platform.

I don't love Glocks. But they work. 13 rounds in the G23 which conceals under a T-shirt. 15 rounds in the G22 if I can carry something bigger. They're relatively light compared to what I was carry, even with higher capacity.

And yes, this switch was partly due to capacity. We all hope we won't need to shoot. And if we need to, we hope we won't need many shots. But I think we'd also like to have some ammo left in the gun when it's over, and still be standing.

 

[stillquietvoice]

I've carried as many as 46 for a Taurus pt99, 3 mags +1, 40 in a p14-45, 6 in a couple of different revolvers and 2 in a derringer. It all depended on where I was going.

 

[Mr. Mosin]

Up until fairly recently, I'd mainly carried revolvers or single stack semi autos. I switched out guns a lot for different activities, and used a variety of carry methods.

I considered myself competent with the guns I chose to carry. I also considered myself reasonably fast at drawing from various concealment locations.

I knew that a polymer double stack was the practical choice, but I just was never really as good or as comfortable with them as I've been with revolvers and DA/SA Sigs.

I finally sucked it up. Got a G23 and then a G22, and converted them to .357 Sig. Then I started practicing with them. I also started carrying strong side OWB almost exclusively. Now I have a shot timer, and am starting to really work on getting good with the Glock platform.

I don't love Glocks. But they work. 13 rounds in the G23 which conceals under a T-shirt. 15 rounds in the G22 if I can carry something bigger. They're relatively light compared to what I was carry, even with higher capacity.

And yes, this switch was partly due to capacity. We all hope we won't need to shoot. And if we need to, we hope we won't need many shots. But I think we'd also like to have some ammo left in the gun when it's over, and still be standing.

What's this thing you call "practical" ? Most practical I ever saw was a S&W 640 Pro loaded with +P LSWCHP's. Carries good, recoil is easy, accurate and conceals well

 

[Dibbs]

As previously mentioned, being capable and competent with your CCW is more important than capacity...and in my opinion, being wise enough to not put yourself in the compromising position (not going where you shouldn't be) goes a long way. Caliber and mag. size means nothing if you cant hit with it,

I look at it like this, 200 years ago, you would be lucky to have any pistol with 1 shot. 100 years ago, 32 caliber was considered very capable. So six, seven shots, 9mm, who can
complain, really? SA and good judgment, "Rule Of The Stupids", I totally agree, this trumps all. So having a handy carry size pistol is just gravy.

 

[JR24]

What's this thing you call "practical" ? Most practical I ever saw was a S&W 640 Pro loaded with +P LSWCHP's. Carries good, recoil is easy, accurate and conceals well

Depends on the user, I consider something like a Glock 26 more practical.

Conceals just as well, shoots better (in my hands, I've never been a great DAO shooter, YMMV), 9mm +P is ballistically superior and recoils less (subjective, this is my opinion and experience), holds twice the ammo and is faster on the reload, with optional greater capacity.

I don't pocket carry, so for a belt gun I find a J frame conceals the same as a 26 with +2 mag extension, and only marginally better than a Glock 19 or equivalent.

 

[herrwalther]

Minimum of 6 rounds for me. In a semi auto that could be 5+1. My smallest firearm right now is 6+1. Regardless I usually carry a spare magazine as well for any errands out of my small town.

 

[CDW4ME]

Whats with the poll 10+ if it doesn't print.

A Glock 19/23 is easy enough to conceal with proper clothing (15/13 rounds) - I do not have to tuck my shirt and never do.
Glock 30SF (10 rounds) is about the same size (length/height) as the 19/23.
I'm carrying a Glock 23, but a Glock 19 would be okay - no mag limit.
If I was under a 10 round mag limit then Glock 30SF.
If I can have more than 10 rounds I will (Glock 23) but I will not carry a pistol originally designed for 13/15 rounds with a stupid 10 round mag.
If limited to 10 rounds, bigger bullets (45 acp)
However, I'm willing to sacrifice a bit of diameter in exchange for a 30% increase in capacity, so I'm carrying the 23.
Regardless I'll have a spare mag handy.
Been carrying about 25 years and never needed a single bullet, that does not deteriorate my preference for not running out of bullets, if ever needed.

 

[mavracer]

Capacity matters enough that I sold my LC9s and am getting a Hellcat but not enough that I'm getting rid of my LCR or my PPS .40 and I'll probably tend to carry the Hellcat more than I did the LC9.
I didn't carry the LC9 as much since it's significantly heavier than the LCR and only holds 3 more rounds.

 

[Kleanbore]

Most practical I ever saw was a S&W 640 Pro loaded with +P LSWCHP's

That seem to be "practical" to you, but there are handguns s with better triggers and more capacity that are equally concealable.

 

[Kleanbore]

I look at it like this, 200 years ago, you would be lucky to have any pistol with 1 shot. 100 years ago, 32 caliber was considered very capable.

What might that mean to us?

 

[Hangingrock]

Thank you for the observations.

What makes you think they are relevant to the question at hand?

Show me the statistical data for the relevancy of 10 round minimum capacity as being adequate and less than that capacity not adequate. Where is the documentation other wise its just a WAG nothing more or less.

 

[WrongHanded]

What's this thing you call "practical" ? Most practical I ever saw was a S&W 640 Pro loaded with +P LSWCHP's. Carries good, recoil is easy, accurate and conceals well

Within the context of conceal carry choices, what I mean by practical is this:

- Big enough to get a correct grip on quickly, and shoot effectively.
- Easily visible sights (in all light conditions), with a long enough sight radius to give acceptable accuracy.
- Relatively light weight, and as compact as possible, whilst fulfilling the criteria above.
- Has enough capacity to be able to engage multiple attackers, without relying on a single serving to any attacker doing the job.
- Chambered in a cartridge in which one can find defensive ammo that passes FBI testing. Or to put it another way, expands as much as possible whilst reliably penetrating enough to hit vital organs.

That's what I meant by "practical".

 

[Kleanbore]

Show me the statistical data for the relevancy of 10 round minimum capacity as being adequate and less than that capacity not adequate.

Where did that assertion come from?

I do know that Rob Pincus' proposal for an ideal CCW for IWB carry is a single-column 9MM semi-auto with a ten round capacity, with no separate safety switch or maybe a grip safety, but that hasn't been brought up here.

FWIW, my pistol holds eight.

 

[Mr. Mosin]

Within the context of conceal carry choices, what I mean by practical is this:

- Big enough to get a correct grip on quickly, and shoot effectively.
- Easily visible sights (in all light conditions), with a long enough sight radius to give acceptable accuracy.
- Relatively light weight, and as compact as possible, whilst fulfilling the criteria above.
- Has enough capacity to be able to engage multiple attackers, without relying on a single serving to any attacker doing the job.
- Chambered in a cartridge in which one can find defensive ammo that passes FBI testing. Or to put it another way, expands as much as possible whilst reliably penetrating enough to hit vital organs.

That's what I meant by "practical".

That 640 Pro meets all criteria, minus one.

 

[Mr. Mosin]

Where did that assertion come from?

I do know that Rob Pincus' proposal for an ideal CCW for IWB carry is a single-column 9MM semi-auto with a ten round capacity, with no separate safety switch or maybe a grip safety, but that hasn't been brought up here.

FWIW, my pistol holds eight.

I can get behind a single stack compact 9x19mm w/ a grip safety and ~10 round capacity. Reminds me of Remington's R51

 

[Mr. Mosin]

That seem to be "practical" to you, but there are handguns s with better triggers and more capacity that are equally concealable.

Like what ?