"Do you have firearms in the vehicle?"

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Camp David
There has been consensus in this thread about not lying to officer if asked:"Do you have firearms in the vehicle?"

Okay... what to say?

In my opinion: hand Driver's License to Officer, along with registration, when asked the question: "Do you have firearms in the vehicle?" DO not specifically answer question. Ask him/her instead: "What was I pulled over for?"

If asked again, "Do you have firearms in the vehicle?" repeat your question in reponse..."What was I pulled over for?"

In my opinion, I see this as a lose/lose situation whatever you answer, so this is case where answering a question with a question is called for...

Interesting thread nonetheless

After the second time you refuse to answer, you will probably be on the ground, with your nose in the dirt, a knee in your back, and your wrists in cuff. THAT is a lose/lose situation my friend.
 
Leo; "Do you have any "weapons" in the car?"

Me, "Officer, do I still have the right to remain silent?"

Decision tree. If not yes, go to no below.

YES
Officer, "Yes."
Me, "I assert my right to remain silent."
him, "alright, you may go." :eek:

NO
him, "No."
me, "Is it true that a leo may lie to a suspect to gain compliance or other results?"

Decision tree. If not yes, go to no below.

YES
him, "Yes."
Me, "are you lying now?"
him, "yes." or "no." (don't matter flow is the same)
me, "I assert my right to remain silent."
him, "alright, you may go." :eek:


NO
him, "No."
me, "Please call your superviser and I assert my right to remain silent."

Now, somebody log on to tell me that I might beat the rap, but I won't beat the ride.

Ha, I have already had the ride and I let them get away with it. THAT won't happen again. :p Cha Ching.
 
Mannlicher said:
After the second time you refuse to answer, you will probably be on the ground, with your nose in the dirt, a knee in your back, and your wrists in cuff. THAT is a lose/lose situation my friend.

Mannlicher=>

Perhaps! More than likely that would be probable result! But... I did not lie. More to the point, I asked a legitimate question in reponse to his and complied legally, handing officer my driver's license and registration. HE WOULD HAVE A TOUGH TIME making a case for a seach based solely on what I said (I asked a normal question).

You see, question posed, "Do you have firearms in the vehicle?" has severe consequences for any answer and I would refuse to play this game... If the officer decided to yank me out of car (which I suppose he could) he would be liable for quite a bit of responsibility on his part...

Again. I would not lie. Nor would I play the game of unanticipated consequences by attempting to answer question which, in my opinion, officer HAS NO RIGHT TO ASK. What if he asked, "DO YOU HAVE ANY PORNOGRAPHY IN VEHICLE?"...unanticipated consequences...

My only option is ask him a question. If that gets me "on the ground" well so be it... Hope this officer has a good lawyer....
 
"Do you have firearms in the vehicle?" has severe consequences for any answer and I would refuse to play this game...
Agree. In my opinion, the safest solution is to simply not answer the question.

in my opinion, officer HAS NO RIGHT TO ASK
Well, to be fair, a cop is allowed to ask you anything. At the same time (and regardless of what Jeff White says) you have no legal obligation to answer any question.
 
I obviously don't get it.

Police officers have one of the most dangerous jobs you could get. They are spat on, called names, looked down on, and for what? A pittance.

This individual, has for some reason found it desirable to stop you (odds are good it is your own fault). And all you all can think about is how to make his life more difficult?

I've heard here words to the effect "well he might be a JBT and I have to protect my rights". Isn't that the same kind of reasoning some use about gun control? "He might go nuts and start shooting people". *MIGHT* doesn't cut it does it?

Yes I know my rights. Yes there isn't a lot I have to tell him. How about cutting a person with a tough job a bit of slack.

If a police officer stops me (hasn't happened since I got my permit) he sees my hands on the steering wheel, gets my license and permit handed to him (he already knows I have a permit). If he asks me if I'm carrying I will tell him yes, tell him where, and ask him how he wants to proceed.

If he wants to search the car I *MIGHT* tell him that he does not have my permission and ask him why he wants to. If he satisfies me I'll let him.

Yes I don't have to. But if I'm not doing anything wrong why shouldn't I?

I can hear it now, what if he's bad, what if he plants something, .... Yes it is possible, but please, someone, give me hard facts. In this country, how many times do people get stopped during the course of a year? How many of those stops involve your ROGUE COP?

I do believe that I have a better chance of winning the lottery. Even then, I would say I had a chance for redress even if it did turn bad.

I'm done... as I said, I obviously don't get it.
 
Camp David
My only option is ask him a question. If that gets me "on the ground" well so be it... Hope this officer has a good lawyer....

well, its your butt, thats for sure, and you seem intent on showing it. A cop has every right in the world to ask you anything he wants. Your response will go a long way towards determining how things go from there. He might indeed need a good lawyer, you might indeed, need a doctor. Right or wrong, folks can get killed messing around like that. You could well wind up 'dead right'. High price to pay for a misguided bit of bravado on your part.
I wish you well, and for my part, this bit of discourse is at an end.
 
I live in a state where I am only required to inform the officer of my CHL if asked. My plates do not turn up that I am a CHL holder. Therefore, my general rule of thumb is that if I am not required to leave the car there is no need to bring firearms into the equation (if they are not visible). If the LEO asks me to step out of the car, I will first inform him of my CHL, then tell him where the gun(s) are.

If I am asked "do you have any firearms in the vehicle?" I think I will take Camp David's approach. I the LEO then asks me to step out of the vehicle, my rule goes into effect and I tell them about the guns.

While I know that most LEOs would like to know if there are guns in the car, why give them one more thing to worry about if there is no need? If I happen to have the misfortune to run into a nervous rookie or JBT, I would feel much better just having them write the ticket and leave than try and stumble through an "Armed Citzen" encounter.

Just my $.02
 
"Police officers have one of the most dangerous jobs you could get. They are spat on, called names, looked down on, and for what? A pittance."

Some do it out of a sense of duty, some out of a need for power. Which, is hard to tell on first glance.
I would as soon that police be willing to lay down their lives for the citizens subject to their power, rather than protect their own safety at the expense of our liberty.
I honestly don't CARE how tough a cop's job is. Their personal problems end at my rights and liberty.

That's idealism, of course.

Around here (rural WA), if a shurf deputy wants to know if I have guns in my car, I'll be honest. Fortunately I drive safely and keep my vehicle in working order, so I haven't had the opportunity to find out how it would go, yet. :eek:
 
you have no legal obligation to answer any question.

Well be careful here. If you have a CCW part of your agreement with the state in most cases includes a positive legal obligation on your part to disclose your firearm to authorities. Failure to do so can be a crime and at least get you off the CCW list. Things get interesting when you consider whether or not a person who just murdered someone with his piece has a positive obligation to disclose the firearm's existence even though that's self incrimination. But that's one for the law reviews. If you're packing--TELL THE COP! Of course, a firearm stowed in the vehicle is another matter entirely.
 
You guys need to think more like politicians. Don't "lie", but you don't really have to answer his question exactly. Somthing like:

Cop: "Do you have any guns in the car?"

Me: "I have nothing illegal in the car, sir."

By talking around the question, you have stuck to your "platform" (that you are doing nothing wrong, except for maybe the minor infraction that lead to the contact in the first place), not lied, and not given the cop anything to work with. How well do you think that would go?
 
Quote:
_________________________________________________________________
When the question "Is there a weapon in the car" is met with stony silence, that doesn't raise suspicions at all. Dude, just tell the truth. You're not doing anything illegal (the caveat to this is to know the local law and know you're not doing anything illegal).
_________________________________________________________________



It's probably pointless to argue with a cop, but my law firm does some work for a fairly well known second amendment group (providing legal advice and assistance). And I can tell you that whether or not you are obeying the law makes not one iota of difference.

I have seen quite a few examples of times where people have KNOWN the law, OBEYED the law (bad law though it is), and been arrested by LEO's who KNEW the person was obeying the law. And then these people have been charged by prosecutors who KNOW that no crime or "crime" was committed. It doesn't come down to what is legal and what is illegal. It comes down to what our rulers (and you, their jackbooted thugs) want the law to be. And the point is not to convict; the point is to harrass and to intimidate.

In most of these sorts of cases, innocent people are tied up in court for months facing vague charges like "misuse of a firearm," and end up spending tens of thousands of dollars they don't have defending themselves and clearing their name.

At that point, there isn't a whole lot of money left over to go after the cops and the state, chasing the relatively small odds that anything will come of a civil suit. So another peaceful person is out $50,000, and is thinking twice before again exercising his most innate, God given rights, scared that he will be persecuted by the "law."





If asked if there is a weapon in the car, the response should either involve telling the officer where to go and what to do to himself when he gets there (protected speech says the SC, but which probably just invites further violation of rights)...or it preferably should involve silence and the handing of a lawyer's card to the officer. There is absolutely NO justification for such a question unless the person is under arrest and, if that is the case, he shouldn't be answering ANY questions to begin with.

But I do think it is perfectly legal to lie to a state or local LEO, so long as not under oath or being questioned for a crime (and maybe even then). Lying to a federal official or officer, though, is a felony "crime" in these United States. (This is not legal advice, though.:) )
 
I once had an LEO friend tell me that when he is pulled over, and has a weapon with him, he tells the officer immediately (along with his LEO status), before being asked, to avoid any sort of confusion. If you are legal, you don't have anything to hide. Avoiding the question and/ or lying, are bound to be your downfalls, criminally or physically.
 
what if he's bad, what if he plants something, .... Yes it is possible, but please, someone, give me hard facts. In this country, how many times do people get stopped during the course of a year? How many of those stops involve your ROGUE COP?

I'm afraid that you have misstated the question. The question is not how many of these stops involve a "rouge cop". The question is how many "rouge cops" does it take to ruin your life.

Why don't we ask Dennis Fritz, Marion Coakley, WalterTyrone Snyder, Robert Miller, Glen Dale Woodall, Ron Williamson, Gary Dotson , Dennis Fritz, Tim Durham, Donald Reynolds, Marvin Mitchell, Dennis Williams etc......

Oh you do not recognize those names? All of the above were arrested, tried, convicted and then all were found to be INNOCENT . Not "Not Guilty" but rather innocent, as in proven not to have anything to do with the crime.

Oh and by the way just because the LEO is honest (as I believe the vast majority are) does NOT mean you are safe. Just better hope that the police do not employee people such as Pamela Fish, Michael West, Fred Salem Zain etc...

All of these Crime Lab people were proven to have lied and falsified evidence to convict innocent people.

Again I believe that the vast majority of cops and lab techs are honest.

IMHO a good example is the Police Officer training to treat every body as if they want to kill the officer. Only a very small percentage of people want to attack an officer, but the police still treat everyone that way. "Officer Safety" is the phrase I believe. So the police treat everyone as if they want to kill an officer for their own protection even though the vast majority of times it is a waste of time.

Guess what it is the same way for the honest citizen. Most cops are honest but it only take one to ruin your life even though the vast majority of LEOs are honest.

NukemJim
 
If you are legal, you don't have anything to hide.

Does that include the LEO who told me (and about 5 other people in the gunstore at the same time) that he did not care what the state law was ( Illinois) that if he found anyone with a gun in the passenger compartment of the vehicle loaded or unloaded that he would arrest them and "let the judge sort it out".

This was afterhe was done reading a brochure from the Ill State Police outlining the new law about transporting firearms and specificly stating that carrying the gun in the passenger compartment was legal as long as it was unloaded and properly cased. :confused:

NukemJim
 
IF a cop ask are there weapons in the car. Just ask why he is pulling you over. or dont answer the question at all. If its after you got your ticket then ask if you can leave, cops can not hold you if there is no cause. Yes i know they can find reasons, but it still needs to hold up in court.


Trust me this works, but it will piss off the cop that you said no you cant search my car, or ignored all of his questions. ITs worked for me, cops around here dont like people saying no to them, put its none of there business what i am doing-as long as it legal.




2. Dont show an attitude!!! Law enforcement officers are testing you from the minute they pull behind your vehicle.....99.9% of people I arrest or issue citations to do not pass what is commonly refered to as the "attitude test"

jezz if that many poeple fail how do you pass
 
Coronach said:
1. Are you a CCW permit holder, and are you carrying the gun?

If the answer is yes, failure to inform (note: 'inform', not 'wait until they ask me') is a crime. You will lose your CCW permit. Assuming you are driving your own vehicle, they will have your status as a CCW permit holder before they approach your vehicle. If not, they'll have it once the run your DL.
Not universally true. This is true only for states that have a duty to inform in statute. NOT all states make this a requirement.

Once again, as for so many of this type of question ... there is NO SUBSTITUTE for reading and understanding YOUR state's laws (and the laws of any states through which you may be traveling). If you don't understand what the law says -- ask an attorney who practices in that state, don't expect to get competent legal advice from the Internet.
 
Mindwhip. . . .

When he says 99.9% of those he cites failed the attitude test, that means that percentage of the people who got tickets, not that percentage of the people he pulls over. The people who passed the test are by and large not included in that number because they mostly didn't get cited--they were allowed to go on their way.

The statement implies that only .1% of those who got citations were people with good attitudes.
 
OOOOOO I get it:eek:

I am always nice to a cop up to the point were they lie to me, if they do, after that i dont care if i am spending the night in jail- or get a ticket. Maybe thats why i did not get that "speeding ticket" when i had a good reason for it and was nice.
 
usmcski,

You are the law abiding, gun owning, American citizens worse nightmare.
I get out of my vehicle and I'll be looking down the "business end" of your .45?????
My "attitude" gets me a ticket?????
I thought that voilation of the law got me a ticket. Thanks for clearing that up for us.
You my man would have thrived, and prospered in 1930's thru mid 1940's Germany.
Post's like yours are a great educational service to Americans who have yet to encounter your kind.

JTMcC.
 
"Do you have any firearms in the vehicle?
"Sure, officer. What do you need?" :cool:

In all seriousness, though - do you guys come up with these kinds of hypothetical situations just so you'll be able to exert your abundant righteous indignation and come to a conclusion that will reinforce your preconcieved notions?

Due to a lead foot, a nice stereo system, and a job that requires a lot of driving, I've earned myself a depressingly large collection of what I lovingly refer to as High Speed Driving Awards, and I've only been ticketed about half of the times when I've been stopped. The point being that I've been stopped a lot. I even got stopped once because my vehicle was the same make, model and color as one that had been reported as running a load of drugs up I-95 to New York.

Not once - not one single solitary time, have I ever been asked if I had firearms in the vehicle. I'm not saying it isn't possible. I'm saying that coming on here and getting yourself worked into a lather about something so painfully uncommon borders on the ridiculous. There's an ample amount of real, genuine, legitimate things in the world for you to get pissed off about. You don't need to make up imaginary situations and then use them as evidence to bolster your beliefs.
 
After the second time you refuse to answer, you will probably be on the ground, with your nose in the dirt, a knee in your back, and your wrists in cuff. THAT is a lose/lose situation my friend.

And then you will hit the lottery!! Frigging JBT
 
by no means am i saying don't prepare for such a situation. but i have been stopped at least 5 times [only 1 resulting in a ticket],and the officer never asked me if i had a weapon in the vehicle.
 
Here in california, the correct response is always No. If you say you do have a weapon in the vehicle, you will be sitting for about 1/2 of an hour minimum, while they run every single serial number, you may be handcuffed and sat at the side of the road. and from my experiance, the police typically do not treat your firearms with any respect whatsoever. I've had to lay them in the dirt, and I've been prevented from wiping them down with oil or cleaning them before putting them away in their cases etc.

My experience differs significantly from your own.

When I was driving a hatchback car and had a soft-cased Kel-Tec SU-16B in the back, I was stopped at a DUI checkpoint one evening with one of my friends. We had gone shooting earlier in the day, put the rifle in the back of the car, drove to his house, cleaned it, and were going out to get food prior to me going back to my house and putting the gun in the safe.

Evidently the police officer recognized that I was not intoxicated (it was about 2am, I was polite, 23 years of age, wearing a t-shirt and jeans, and had not had anything to drink for several weeks), but was curious what was in the case in the back. I pleasantly remarked that it was a Kel-Tec SU-16B. We talked guns for a moment, he asked how I liked it, I inquired about his duty weapon (Sig .40 of some type, I don't recall the exact model...P229 perhaps?), and I was bid good night.

This was in the bar/club area (about a three-block stretch near the train tracks) of a relatively middle-upper-class San Francisco suburb. CCWs are essentially unheard of, and there's a small but not-very-vocal-or-obvious gun owning population (very much below the national average, I believe). A twentysomething with an EBR would likely raise some eyebrows, yet I was not asked to leave the vehicle, and was stopped only as long as necessary for the car ahead of me to be allowed to pass.

While I may disagree with the concept of a DUI checkpoint, I do not feel that my rights (Second Amendment or otherwise) were infringed at all. I was mildly inconvienienced by the delay, but I would hardly consider it a violation of my rights.
 
So assuming we're not talking about concealed carry, whats the problem with lying and saying no? If they have pc to search your car for some other reason I could see it being a pain for you. Short of that though you say no and they either go about their business or decide to search your car, find nothing but legal guns, and you have them on a questionable search.

I have no idea what I'd do because I've never been asked such a question. "I'm sorry I don't think thats relevant" would help speed things along much either...
 
In AZ I am obligated to tell the cop that I am licensed and packing.
Not correct.

http://www.packing.org/state/arizona/ said:
Must inform Law Enforcement when Carrying
Date updated: Sep 26, 2005 @ 4:02 pm

Arizona has no statutory requirement to inform a law enforcement officer that you are carrying; common sense may dictate otherwise. However, you must present your permit on request (ARS 13-3112.D). A person who fails to present a permit for inspection on the request of a law enforcement officer is guilty of a class 2 misdemeanor.
 
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