"Do you have firearms in the vehicle?"

[evan price]

In the many years and many miles I spent behind the wheel so far I havfe collected and paid my share of excessive speed permit fees...and been introduced to the nicest men by the side of the road!
To date, never been asked about guns in car. Even when I had one. That was before my state's (OHIO) CCW law which repealed the affirmative defense.
Since I got my legal in state CFL I have yet to be pulled over and tested attitudes.
However, if I was legal (And I don't mess with drugs or that silliness) and had a cased rifle or something in the back.. I Would say, "There is an unloaded rifle cased in the trunk."
Why prolong the agony beside the road? I have been able to get out of citations in municipalities that are legendary for writing citations, simply by being friendly, polite, and honest to the LEO beside the road. Every ticket I have gotten I have deserved. Much as I b*tch about them they were my fault.

If you remember ONE thing from this thread, let it be this:
Nearly every jurisdiction uses live video and audio recording equipment to detail the events at your stop. What would that tape of your interaction with that LEO look like played back to a jury, no matter how "right" you were, no matter how "wrong" you were? Come across like an @sshat and you will be treated like an @sshat.. no matter right or wrong.

Remember the Florida case, the Miami-Dade police Major Aaron Cambell that got pulled over by the Orange County deputies and wound up in a major fight by the side of the road? Turns out the deputies were not only wrong in asserting his license plate was blocked by the trailer hitch on his bumper, they had already been warned by a judge several times that this excuse was unacceptable.

 

[roo_ster]

Nearly every jurisdiction uses live video and audio recording equipment to detail the events at your stop. What would that tape of your interaction with that LEO look like played back to a jury, no matter how "right" you were, no matter how "wrong" you were?

I had a buddy cited for speeding a while back who fought the ticket, jury trial & everything.

The prosecution produced video & audio. The audio was odd in that it only caught my buddy getting steamed and not one word of Officer Friendly's nasty replies. Seems OF was fiddling with the mike when it was convenient.

Long story short, my buddy triumphed due to OF's flat out lying that was contradicted by the dash mounted video. OF got a good chewing by the judge & the prosecutor took his toys & went home, since his case imploded.

 

[thereisnospoon]

I always answer the question with a question:

"Of course, what caliber you need?"

 

[Erebus]

I don't remember ever getting pulled over here in the people's republic of massachusetts and not being asked if I had any weapons in the car. I would not want to have to explain in court why I had one or more guns in the car after telling the LEO that I didn't. No matter what your reason it won't score points with a judge or jury. If your car happens to match the description of one they are looking for. I have heard on my scanner where they are stopping all "white cars" because that is the best description they could get from a witness.

If everything in your car is legal why risk creating a problem for yourself?

Oh and I don't know aboout the whole state. but if your gun/s are confiscated in the city I am in they have no room for gun storage. So after a day or two they are sent to a climate controlled storage facility in Norwood Ma. the bill for the storage is $25 per gun, per day. How long before it isn't worth getting them back?

 

[dev_null]

I think the funniest -- and IIRC I mentioned it here at the time -- was the time a Loudoun County VA deputy asked me if I had anything in the car that would hurt him. WTFO? I suppressed the wrong but immediate response of "Yeah, me" and just said in a bewildered voice, "Like what?"

I like when they ask if I have any weapons. Hell, this Bic pen is a weapon! OTOH, the laws aren't much better: the sign on the P.O. says "no firearms or dangerous weapons." Guess what, Binky! If it isn't dangerous, it's not much use as a weapon, is it! And is this Victorinox a dangerous or a non-dangerous weapon? Sheesh.

 

[glummer]

What's the point?

One thing I don't get about this (LEO's, help if you can) -

WHY would an officer ask this question, in the 1st place?

(other than to create a problem for the driver, as some CA posters have suggested.)

What use is it?

If the driver IS 'armed and dangerous', I don't see where asking him about it makes you any safer - it might just set him off, if he thinks you're onto him.

If he's NOT 'armed & dangerous', why bother?

 

[sigman4rt]

Very interesting thread. Makes me think back to when I got stopped for speeding a couple months ago. First thing I was asked was "Do you have any firearms in the vehicle." As I was handing the guy my DL, POI, and CCW. I kinda looked at him a little embarrased like and said "Well yeah, I got a coupla FAL's in the back, an AR-15 and a Mossberg 500 under the blanket on the back seat, a Glock in the glove box, a smith M-19 in the center console and I'm carrying a Sig on my person. I also have ammo for them in the back, as I'm going to the range to shoot. He looked a bit stunned as he went to radio in my info. About five minutes later he was back with my paperwork and was so impressed with me he wanted my autograph as a keepsake(the speeding ticket). I was brought of to tell the truth as best I knew it and it has served me well over the years. Treat others (including police) as you would be treated. Be nice, always be nice, until it's time to not be nice.

 

[gopguy]

You are under the law obligated to tell them the truth. However if they wish to search your vehicle's trunk you can require they get a warrant. We both live in Ohio and as one of the folks who helped get our CCW law done in 2204, I can tell if you if have your CCW license, if you get pulled over the first words out of your mouth need to be "Officer I am an Ohio CCW license holder" The second sentence is to tell him if you are carrying a weapon or not. Even if you are not carrying always tell them, otherwise with the leads check they will know if you have your license or not.

As far as keeping a gun in the car. As a CCW licensee I always travel with a pistol. Ohio law does not allow you to carry a rifle in your car,even in the trunk with loaded magazines. Even if they are not in the gun. However it is legal to have stripper clips. So my trunk gun is a Yugo SKS with about 250 rounds of 7.62X39mm ammo on stripper clips in there in an ammo can. Heaven forbid I ever need it but it is there if I need more than my pistol. Heaven forbid I need that either.....

 

[Molon Labe]

Ohio law

Ohio law does not allow you to carry a rifle in your car,even in the trunk with loaded magazines. Even if they are not in the gun.

gopguy:

Are you saying I can't have an unloaded rifle and a loaded magazine in a vehicle?? I've never heard of this before. Cite?

I checked the ORC and couldn't find anything about it.

Who decided unloaded firearm + loaded magazines = loaded firearm??

 

[MBane666]

Got stopped in Boulder County (CO) on the way home one night late last year. Had been swimming at the gym, then gone for a run, then to a Tex-Mex restaurant to hang with friends, so for once I actually DIDN'T have a gun with me.

He said, "Gun?" I said, "No."

For the next two hours I put up with his shenanigans...I got hauled out of the car...did eight (count 'em!) roadside soriety tests...assumed the position while he waited for "back-up"...got threatend with arrest, a "long trip" to jail, etc...did more roadside sobriety tests for the back-ups (one of whom finally shouted at my sheriff's deputy, "Cut him loose, you a$%hole! He's not drunk!"

Mostly he demanded to know why I was lying to him about the gun. I said I had a permit and wasn't impaired in any way, so if I had a gun in the car — which in Colorado is legal with or without a permit — why would I lie?

Finally a boss showed up, so there were three police cars blocking the highway and yours truly, plus my Sweetie in the passenger seat who was "covered" by one of the back-up boys. My Vince Macky wannabe goes and talks to the boss, then comes back and asks me if I was willing to blow in the tube and then swear I didn't have a gun on me. Bring it, I said with a big happy smile.

So I blew in the tube, then got the whole package again..."I could arrest you right now"...blah blah. I just kept asking what I blew. He finally showed me...WAY below BOTH Colorado standards (felony intoxication and misdomenor impaired). "I could arrest you right now," he said. I urged him to do so, as it was getting late. The back-up guys started laughing again, and he got all red in the face like he was going to pop. I figured I was getting a ride downtown and a beating. "That you're wife in the car?" he asked, "She's going to be pretty damned embarrassed, isn't she."

My Sweetie is a lawyer, and I'd "retained" her when the bubblegums went off. I finally almost lost my temper..."That's my attorney," I snapped, "and the end of your career in law enforcement!"

"Get the f^&% out of here, you a%^hole!" And he turned around and walked back to his cruiser.

Your tax dollars at work! Had a smoother outcome when I got pegged for speeding in Ding-Dong Kansas last year on the way back to the airport — trooper came back, handed me my ticket and said, "Sorry we had to meet this way, Mr. Bane. I really like your show."

Michael B

 

[AJAX22]

The single most memorable encounter with law enforcement I've ever had was a few years back.

My friend and I were out shooting on private property up in the hills at a popular offroading spot. we each had a small pistol and a .22 bolt action rifle. his was a mkI ruger pistol and a remmington targetmaster rifle. Mine was a sears and roebuck cheapo and an astra .32 acp.

We had a fun full day of plinking, and towards the end we decided to do some rappid fire with the pistols.

Apparently some ignorant woman in an SUV was offroading down the mountain a ways from us (behind us, and well out of any concevible field of fire, we were very safe) and mistook our rapid fire of our small handguns as a machine gun burst.

As we sat around trying to hit the bottle we had placed 200 yards away on a fencepost we noticed first one, and then three highway patroll cars show up.

We could see the parking area several hundered yards down the mountain, but because we were sitting on a pile of rocks tucked into the side of a small portrusion on the hill we were invisible to the officers below.

Since we were the only ones at the site, we assumed they were paying us a visit. so we proceded to pull the bolts out of our rifles, unload our magazines, and pack up for a trip down the mountain.

We held our guns by the barrels, arms out to our sides on the way down making slow easy movements. and we were a third of the way back to them by the time the bullhorn sounded.

Three officers armed with ar15's were crouched behind their doors pointing their weapons center mass on the two of us.

they made us lay our weapons down in the dirt, then partially undress to illustrate that we had no more guns on us. first my friend, then myself had to do the little dance.

At which point the lead oficer asked me "Do you have any more weapons on you?"

Frantically trying to remember if I had a pocketknife, or screwdriver, or carabiner which could be used as brass knuckles in my pocket, I was forced to admit that I did not know exactly what the contents of my pockets were after a days shooting.

I shrugged my shoulders and straightfaced said "Mabye"

In hindsight it wasn't the best answer I could have given, but the look on the faces of the oficers was priceless.

I didn't see the humor in it at the time, My attention was held very firmly by the three floating black holes which were suddenly re-aligned with my forehead. But according to my buddy it was hillarious.

To bring this back to the thread at hand, based on my experiance vauge answers are really not in your best interest and don't inspire alot of comfort for the law enforcement personell. And in my opinion, you want to make the guy with the gun very comfortable.

 

[KenW.]

As an officer I'll ask as point of officer safety. If the person refuses to answer I get HYPER vigilant. Ask the driver to leave his hands on the top of the wheel, etc. If a check shows a CCW, I ask if he has the gun with him, and caution him to not make any move toward the gun, or any move that I may consider a threat. Then we can finish our business.

The permit holders aren't the ones that scare me.

 

[gopguy]

Ohio law
Quote:
Ohio law does not allow you to carry a rifle in your car,even in the trunk with loaded magazines. Even if they are not in the gun.
gopguy:

Are you saying I can't have an unloaded rifle and a loaded magazine in a vehicle?? I've never heard of this before. Cite?

I checked the ORC and couldn't find anything about it.

Who decided unloaded firearm + loaded magazines = loaded firearm??

It is not in the Ohio revised code. It is a policy of the Ohio Department Natural Resources. We had a guy cited by the game warden several years ago when he arrived at the rifle range and the game warden observed him pulling a loaded magazine from a range bag to load his rifle. The charge and fine stuck. That is how I learned of it.

 

[Ira Aten]

Quote from Leadcounsel:
"Never offer consent. That makes LEOs job easier and you lose defenses in court if it ever goes to court. Always make them justify their stop, their search, and their seizures."



As legal advice for winning in court (if you live long enough to make it to court) this statement makes sense.

However, if the goal is to avoid getting beaten severely or avoid being shot two or three times it is probably more prudent to simply plead for your life while curled up in a fetal position, immediately upon seeing the lights come into view in your mirror.

Nobody within our Judicial System or Law Enforcement community that I know of truly believes in the concept of Constitutional Rights. And the last person I am convinced, who cares a whit about the Constitional Protection against unreasonable searches and seizures would be law enforcement personnel.

There is a very valid reason I say this. I once had occasion to speak with an Assistant Police Chief of a major Texas city, during a discussion based soley on the role of Police Officers, in which he claimed not to be certain what the 2nd Amendment said. (Keep in mind, an Assitant Chief of Police)

He justified not knowing by stating verbatim "...I am not a Constitutional Scholar" and therefore he said he couldn't really offer an opinion on how the 2nd Amendment should affect an LEO in their daily approach to law enforcement." This discussion took place on the air, on a radio call in program dealing soley with police matters in that city.

So since that statement came from an officer fairly high up in the "LEO Community" it makes me think everyday LEO's probably don't spend a lot of time concerned with Constitutional details such as the Bill of Rights.

I saw where Art Eatman wrote in this thread that he gets out of the car on a traffic stop.

Then I saw a response from an LEO advising him "Please don't do that. You sound like a nice guy" which indicates to me that this officer felt Art may come to some type of harm for the simple act of getting out of his car during a traffic stop. That is Art's Constitutional Right also, but the LEO who wrote the response seems to feel not many LEO's think excercizing your rights are good for your health during traffic stops.

On "Cops" three nights ago, I saw a black guy try that same "trick" and the cop immediately hollored "Don't jump out on me like that!"

The guy did not "jump out", he slowly exited the car while clearly showing his hands were empty and did so in a clearly respectful manner. He was attempting to show this officer that he was being both attentive and cooperative with the him.

The guy had done nothing more than get out of the car and ask the cop what he wanted him to do next. Instead of proceeding to write a ticket, the cop kept up his rant about not liking it when people "jump out on him like you did" and proceeded to tell the "suspect" how much experience the cop had working the streets, keeping it free of drugs.

The guy was not in any way argumentative, and he was responding "Yes Sir" this, and "No Sir" that. But I could see no apparant reason Constitutinally for him to do anything other than write him a ticket.

In fact, since he never once bothered to answer the man why he had been pulled over I don't truly think anyone would reasonably say his traffic stop was Constitutional either, but the guy still winds up going to jail.

In the course of the "traffic stop" while the camera was not on the officer or on the "suspect" or the "suspected passanger" some drugs were supposedly found on the ground on the passanger side interestingly enough, AT THE EXACT MOMENT the cameraman pans the camera, and the cmaera lights away from where this officer was being filmed.

To me, it seems it would take a moment for a man's eyes to adjust from bright T.V. camera lights to total darkness, to be able to immediately locate a small bag of dope in (now pitch black) dark without the benefit of a flashlight.

But this officer's eyes apparantly adjusted immediately after the camera and lights moved away, and what do you know, VOILA! Ther is a bag of drugs right here on the ground!

So had this guy attempted to "make the officer justify his stop" I don't believe he would have had a very pleasant time after he attempted to tell this cop much of anyting. He asked why he was stopped, received no answer, but did instead received a lecture about how proficient the cop was at keeping drugs off the street.

And due to the fact we don't have a 5th Amendment right any longer (since refusing to answer any and all questions will get you arrested and charged with a number of things, and saying the wrong thing is met with charges of "resisting", the very last thing one needs to do (in my laymans opinion) is attempt to "make an LEO justify" anything.

 

[Mark13]

I've never been asked this question, but then I don't get pulled over much. If I was pulled over in Florida I wouldn't hesitate to answer truthfully. Florida encourages gun ownership, and having guns in your vehicle, through lenient firearms laws(compares to some of our peoples republics).

I think the answer comes down to the attitude of your states law enforcement officers. If I thought I was going to be hassled for having a firearm, I wouldn't hesitate to lie about it.

 

[Q-Lock]

Tim:

So are you saying that in order to be completely legal in Ohio while transporting firearms to/from the range, the firearm's magazines must be empty as well...even if it is in a separate case from the firearm?

Basically, one has the firearms and magazines separated (of course) in the trunk, but also the magazines and the ammunition must be separated as well?

Am I following you correctly on this? Does this only affect rifles?

Rifle in one case, magazines in another case, ammunition in another case...and then the Ohio Department Natural Resources and the Ohio Revised Code will have been properly obeyed.

Hopefully I've followed this correctly.

Good thread Michael, it answered some questions.

 

[yorick]

I've been asked about weapons when pulled over.

As far as I can recall it's always been worded to include the word "illegal" as in "Do you have any illegal weapons or drugs in your vehical?"

First time I got the question it was rental car and of course it had nothing at all in it...

I looked at him oddly, chuckled and just said nope!

Once time when I did 'dodge' the issue - it was worded "Is there anything I should know about in your vehical?"

I look at him like it was a silly question and asked,

"What do you mean?" (I did have a legally cased and transported FAL & ammo - but IMHO he doesn't have any reason to know about it)

He actually almost looked embarassed as he said,

"You know - illegal drugs or weapons...."

I casually chuckled and said,

"Nah - none of that" and he proceeded to the ticketing process....

Evasive answers can presented in a casual manner to put the occifer at ease and expidite me being on my way. No reason to get confrontational - nor is there any obligation to actually answer the question (CCW in some states may be different of course)


A lot can be accomplished by being casual and impersonating a confused-not-too-bright-sheeple while avoiding or not really answering the question....

 

[Gordon Fink]

As far as I can recall it’s always been worded to include the word “illegal” as in “Do you have any illegal weapons or drugs in your vehical?”

Yorick has hit upon the correct way to answer this question, I think.

Fishing Officer: Do you have firearms in the vehicle?

Law-Abiding Motorist: No. There are no illegal guns in my car.

Agree? Disagree?

~G. Fink

 

[Nick1911]

Law-Abiding Motorist: No. There are no illegal guns in my car.

I wouldn't say no, because you are saying that in anwser to his question. I would say:

Law-Abiding Motorist: There are no illegal guns in my car.

 

[Gordon Fink]

The no follows with the assumption of “illegal” guns. What possible reason could an officer have for asking about legal items?

~G. Fink

 

[AJAX22]

Here in the peoples republic of california a loaded magazine or speedloader for either a rifle or pistol constitutes a loaded firearm.

It doesn't matter how it is locked or stored, you aren't allowed to transport loaded magazines.

Thats what I know to be a fact,

I've heard speculation that a loaded magazine can be construed as a loaded firearm for legal purpouses here in california regardless of wether or not there is an actual firearm present. The loaded magazine shows intent to transport a loaded firearm and as such can be prosecuted.

they really don't like guns out here.

I knew a guy who was arrested for shoplifting with exactly one round of ammunition in his pocket. I know it was only one round because I gave it to him the day before, he had never seen a .38 super cartridge so I handed him one for his collection.

Of all the dumb stuff that guy pulled, he got the longest talking to by the judge trying to get him to justify and explain that single round of ammunition.

I no longer associate with that guy btw. He was nice enough, but his views on social responsibility and private property were subject to his convenience.

 

[Gordon Fink]

Not correct, but that doesn’t mean you won’t get arrested.

~G. Fink

 

[gezzer]

If a check shows a CCW, I ask if he has the gun with him, and caution him to not make any move toward the gun, or any move that I may consider a threat. Then we can finish our business.

The permit holders aren't the ones that scare me.

Then why bust his butt about it with the extra warning? The new breed of law enforcement must be a bunch of pansy’s when they treat a permit holder like a Felon.

The guy with a permit is not your enemey; in fact he is on your side most of the time until treated like a felon by seriously respect lacking officers who have to show their authority in the new to concealed carry state.

Am I glad I am retired out of Law enforcement now as these guys make the rest of us look bad

 

[mindwip]

, "Sorry we had to meet this way, Mr. Bane. I really like your show."

LOL

 

[bowline]

Do what the nice officer tells you to....

Chesapeake, Virginia.
Pulled for a bad tail light. Officer Friendly sees the USGI ammo can in the passenger side floorboard (my toolbox). Asks if I have any guns in the car - "No, officer."
Step out of the vehicle, do the sobriety tests, blow in the tube (all negative) and every three minutes I get asked if I have any firearms in the vehicle. After ten minutes of this, the backups arrive. I'm getting pretty P.O,'d myself, but manage to keep it polite. Officer requests to search the vehicle, I tell him no. I get to do some more sobriety tests. Officer Friendly then determines that, even though I pass the sobriety and breathalyzer tests, that I'm "too intoxicated to drive".
Wants to know if I'd like my vehicle towed, I decline. "I live a block away, I'll walk home". We're on a side street, several vehicles are parked along the street, but Officer Friendly states that I can't leave my vehicle there. He speaks to another officer, who drives my truck less than 100 feet and parks. I can SEE the officer searching the vehicle.
Officer comes back, hands me my keys. Officers leave, apparently unconcerned that I might get back in my vehicle.
Elapsed time about 40 minutes.
I've learned several things from this;
If I am pulled and can at all manage it, I'll park in a designated parking spot. If told to exit the vehicle, lock it and pocket the keys.
If the officer mentions anything other than a traffic citation, I will immediately ask that he contact a supervisor.
Police officers are not necessarily honest.

An officer who says that I musn't break the law even though I have a legitimate concern for my safety, and then claims he has a right to break the law because of a legitimate concern for his safety, seriously needs to examine his principles.
Having a badge will get my attention, but not my respect, and certainly not any trust.