I have a friend who just bought a SIG in 7.62x39. He tells me he doesn't like it as much as the AK or VZ-58. His is picky about which magazines will fit. Plus you've got the potential specter of trade disruptions, especially in the arms trade, with Russia over the situation in Crimea. That could make what was once cheap 7.62x39 ammo a lot more expensive.
First semi-auto centerfire: AR-15 vs .308 semi auto
- Thread starter Centurian22
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I have a friend who just bought a SIG in 7.62x39. He tells me he doesn't like it as much as the AK or VZ-58. His is picky about which magazines will fit. Plus you've got the potential specter of trade disruptions, especially in the arms trade, with Russia over the situation in Crimea. That could make what was once cheap 7.62x39 ammo a lot more expensive.
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Centurian22
Member
Never been a fan of the 7.62x39. Stayed up way too late last night working on my build plan. I think I've got most of it worked out and will be posting it after a little more review. PSA completed lower, everything else parted out from BCM. Totaled $1350 by the time I was done. Like I said more research to be done.
OP
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Centurian22
Member
I wanted to start with a stripped lower for the full build experience, but couldn't get anywhere near the completed PSA/Blackhawk lower price. Especially when adding an ergonomic grip and stock. Saved money gets me all the closer to a geissele trigger too.
How many countries are there, besides the Russians, which produce 762x39....at least 5....I just a had another 1000 rounds delivered in 50 cal cans for less than .30 a round. The only thing much more affordable is the 5.45 at around .18 a round?
Ask anybody who' s been into ARs for a few years-the limitations on shooting them are generally Ammo related...oh well...
ugaarguy
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I can get steel cased Eastern Bloc .223 for under 30 cents per round too. 18 cent per round 5.45 is now dead because a few companies decided to make 5.45x39 pistols so the ATF has now stopped import of 7n6 surplus.
Anybody who really knows AR's will tell you that a properly built AR-15 will eat Eastern Bloc steel cased .223 all day. Properly built being a true to spec 5.56 NATO chamber that's either hard chrome lined or ferritic nitrocarburized and rifle or carbine that's not under gassed. A very slightly over gassed rifle or carbine will actually work better with the notoriously weak Eastern Bloc .223 ammo; and it will still perform flawlessly with US Made, brass cased, full pressure 5.56 ammo. But what do I know, I've only shot a ton of both through a S&W M&P-15 Sport, a Colt SP1, and a DD M4.
Yeah, I've found the underpowered Russian stuff to work fine in a good rifle too. I've shot it out of BCM's and an Armalite. On the one BCM, when the rifle was new and still wearing in, I noticed that it wouldn't lock the bolt back on the last shot. As the rifle wore in though and the buffer spring softened up a little, that problem went away. The Russian stuff is also dirtier. It doesn't seem to expand the case to seal the chamber off the same way brass does. I don't know if that's because it's not loaded as hot, or if it's because of steel not expanding and contracting the same way brass does. But it has fed, fired, and ejected just fine in my (relatively limited) experience.
The 7.62x39 also is often limited by its ammo - namely, the cheap Russian stuff. Load an AK with good US production brass cased stuff (or good ammo from a foreign manufacturer) and it's often surprising how much better an AK can shoot. I don't think it'd quite match an AR in general, but still, a good AK can shoot. Also, I owned a VEPR K .223 once and that thing would shoot. Maybe it was the ammo I was shooting, or maybe it was just that rifle... but do I ever regret selling that damn thing and the stack of Circle 10 magazines I had for it!
On the SIG, I think my friend's is a good rifle. He hasn't complained about reliability or accuracy, but it's picky about what magazines it will allow to lock in. It's also not really any better than any of his AK's or his VZ-58. And if you need replacement parts for the SIG, you'd better hope SIG is selling them or someone else has them. If you need parts for an AK, some are available but maybe not. If you need parts for a VZ-58... I don't even know where you'd find them. If you need parts for an AR-15, you'd have to be a howling idiot to not be able to find them.
The AR isn't superior to everything in every way, but taken as a whole package with logistics and ammo availability added in, it's about the best you'll find in this country IMO.
The 7.62x39 also is often limited by its ammo - namely, the cheap Russian stuff. Load an AK with good US production brass cased stuff (or good ammo from a foreign manufacturer) and it's often surprising how much better an AK can shoot. I don't think it'd quite match an AR in general, but still, a good AK can shoot. Also, I owned a VEPR K .223 once and that thing would shoot. Maybe it was the ammo I was shooting, or maybe it was just that rifle... but do I ever regret selling that damn thing and the stack of Circle 10 magazines I had for it!
On the SIG, I think my friend's is a good rifle. He hasn't complained about reliability or accuracy, but it's picky about what magazines it will allow to lock in. It's also not really any better than any of his AK's or his VZ-58. And if you need replacement parts for the SIG, you'd better hope SIG is selling them or someone else has them. If you need parts for an AK, some are available but maybe not. If you need parts for a VZ-58... I don't even know where you'd find them. If you need parts for an AR-15, you'd have to be a howling idiot to not be able to find them.
The AR isn't superior to everything in every way, but taken as a whole package with logistics and ammo availability added in, it's about the best you'll find in this country IMO.
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harley040
Member
I own a DPMS LR-308 with a 18 inch barrel. I am getting 3/4 MOA with factory match ammo and just shot a 1/4 MOA 5 shot group last week. I paid $900 for the gun and dropped a timney trigger and SWFA 3-15X42 Mil Rad scope on it. So all told $1750 into the gun and shoot the zit off a gnats ass out to 600 yards. home brew load is IMR 4064 with 44.5 grains over a sierra 168 gr MK
Welding Rod
Member
Do yourself a favor and buy right the first time. I recommend you start with something like this - I did the experimentation with dozens of AR configurations already and learned a lot of expensive lessons.
Pertinent Details:
BCM mid-length 16" BFH L/W with BCM brake/flash arrestor
Wilson TTU 2-stage trigger
KMR rail w/ 2 QD sling swivel mounts, 1 fore and 1 aft.
Aimpoint T-1 (2 MOA)
BCM small or med charge handle
Blue Force Gear Vickers sling (metal hardware)
BCM's new 1" flashlight mount is pretty sweet too. Puts the light in right place on the KMR (10:30, on the upper angled rail surface). I don't have it mounted on this upper though to show.
Magpul mags
Pertinent Details:
BCM mid-length 16" BFH L/W with BCM brake/flash arrestor
Wilson TTU 2-stage trigger
KMR rail w/ 2 QD sling swivel mounts, 1 fore and 1 aft.
Aimpoint T-1 (2 MOA)
BCM small or med charge handle
Blue Force Gear Vickers sling (metal hardware)
BCM's new 1" flashlight mount is pretty sweet too. Puts the light in right place on the KMR (10:30, on the upper angled rail surface). I don't have it mounted on this upper though to show.
Magpul mags
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WardenWolf
member
I personally opted for an 8 pound 16" VEPR .308. A semi-auto boomer doesn't HAVE to weigh 10+ pounds. And it's still accurate enough to be a DMR.
Just curious, but why is this thread - now over one-year old @ post #83 - being bumped? 
Was there some continuing relevance? I mean, we haven't even heard if the OP's memsahib allowed him to get the AR he was so desperately seeking in the first place ...
As always, IBTL.
Was there some continuing relevance? I mean, we haven't even heard if the OP's memsahib allowed him to get the AR he was so desperately seeking in the first place ...
As always, IBTL.
I'm with you. I'm guessing this issue with the CFO was worked out one way or the other many moons ago.Just curious, but why is this thread - now over one-year old @ post #83 - being bumped?
Was there some continuing relevance? I mean, we haven't even heard if the OP's memsahib allowed him to get the AR he was so desperately seeking in the first place ...
As always, IBTL.
ugaarguy
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Since this thread was over a year old and was randomly bumped in what looks to be a drive by post, and since the OP hasn't logged into THR in about three months this one is closed. Centurian22, if you decide you want to update us about the outcome send a PM to me or another mod and we'll reopen this.
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