I'm watching the documentary "Grizzly Man" on the Discovery Channel right now..

[hillbilly]

I'm watching "Grizzly Man" on the Discovery Channel right now.

And there can be no other reaction to this flick other than Timothy Treadwell was a kool-aid chugging wackjob of monumental proportions.

I mean this guy was straitjacket material.

You cannot watch this film and come to any sort of romanticized conclusion about Treadwell (which wasn't even his real name.)

He was seriously gone.

Highlights from the film....he researched a small town in Australia to get enough details so he could pass himself off as an Aussie, complete with horrendously fake accent.

The film makers interviewed a "friend" of Treadwell's who didn't learn until after he'd been eaten by grizzlies that Treadwell wasn't really an Aussie.

He was oohing and aahing over fresh, warm bear poop, touching it with his hand, practically worshipping it because it had just been inside a bear that he loved, and it was part of her, and still warm. It's part of her. It just came out of her. It was inside of her, he coos over and over as he caresses the bear crap.

His phsycial actions in his videos lead my lovely wife to alternately say "He's crazy" and then, "He's got to be on something in that shot."

The film maker and narrator of the documentary Werner Herzog, does a rather revealing voice over in one scene of Treadwell mourning over the forequarters and head of a fox kit killed and eaten by wolves.

Herzog says something along the lines that "Incredibly, the only conclusion that one can come to is that Treadwell failed to realize that predators were part of nature, as he saw and idealized vision of nature, with everything in balance and harmony."

Treadwell shot another clip of himself caressing the paw of a bear cub, killed and eaten by a male bear. The paw is basically the only part left.

Treadwell mourns over the bare skull of another young grizzly eaten by other starving bears because the salmon weren't running enough. So Treadwell tried to dig out the stream so the salmon could get upstream so the bears would stop eating each other.

While people associated with Treadwell have tried mightily to lionize Treadwell, and paint him as some sort of pure-hearted, possibly misguided romantic nature boy, this film debunks this set of images completely.

He was a far-gone nutcase of the first magnitude.

Now, the film maker is showing the parts of Treadwell's own film clips that show his "increasing paranoia."

Now there's a clip of Treadwell flipping off the camera, and screaming "F-you" at the Park Service people who tried to work with him and help for 13 years.

Watch this documentary to see what kind of nut job Timothy Treadwell really was.

It will blow your mind.

hillbilly

 

[hillbilly]

Another gem from the documentary.

One of the very last entries into Amy Hugenard's diary (Treadwell's girlfriend who died with him as a bear snack) revealed that she feared Timothy was "Hell Bent on Destruction."

But the narrator says despite writing this in her diary, "she inexplicably returned with him to the Grizzly Maze."

Encore presentation tomorrow (Saturday, Feb. 4) at 8 pm CST.

hillbilly

 

[84B20]

I too just finished watching "Grizzly Man." I have been thinking of a trip to Alaska in a couple of years so I've been reading books on grizzly and black bears, Mark of the Grizzly by Scott McMillion and Bear Attacks by Stephen Herrero to name two. I was just finishing a chapter in Herrero's book when my wife called me over to the TV to tell me about the show. I couldn't believe my eyes. I don't know if Treadwell was crazy or just suicidal but it was fascinating watching it. I think if he had done half the research I have done he wouldn't have attempted the film, unless he was in fact suicidal. It was obvious he hated society so I guess he got what he wanted.

 

[hillbilly]

Oh man, it's on again.

And here's another sparkling gem.

Four of Treadwell's old buddies are sitting around a table talking about the movie.

One of them, Marc Gaede, or something like that, is explaining away Treadwell's death.

You see, the bear that killed and ate Timothy and his girlfriend was an "abused bear."

Mean old humans at one time tranquilized that bear, and pulled out one of his teeth, and tattooed the inside of his lip.

That experience obviously traumatized that bear, and made it hate humans.

So it was really the Park Sevice's fault that Timothy wound up as bear munchies, you see?

It wasn't Timothy's fault. It was the mean old humans who abused that poor bear and traumatized it all those years ago.

That bear was just taking out his rage and vengeance against people on Timothy, who happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

This film just keeps getting more and more unbelievable.

Watch it. It'll blow your mind.

hillbilly

 

[damascusblade5]

Rooting for the bear

I rented this a few weeks ago.After about a half hour of watching this fool,I was rooting for the bear to get it over with.Maybe some of his friends who were shown on the film will go to Alaska and try to finish his work,we can only hope.

 

[Lennyjoe]

Didn't know it was on Discovery channel. We just rented it this eve.

 

[hillbilly]

The wackiness continues.

Treadwell wanted to become a bear, apparently.

However, he would never, ever, ever, actually kill any living creature himself.

Wants to be a bear......won't kill.........

And his four buddies all nodded around the table when one of the wackos, uh, I mean Timothy's friends profoundly opined that hunting is just "misplaced primate aggression," that evil, mean, stupid humans direct against noble, good, superior animals.........

Yeah, okay.....got it.......Apex predator bears are noble and wonderful killers, but humans aren't apex predators, but mean, lowly creatures with "misplaced primate aggression" issues.

Granola hippy eco-worshipping hypocrisy at its finest.



hillbilly

 

[Crosshair]

Sometimes you have to let the crazy people do crazy things. Just hope that the bear eats the tapes next time. Comparing this guy to how I used to be, (before I got help) this guy is a grade A+ wackjob.

 

[calzoom]

TREADWELL

Treadwell did in fact become the fecal part of a bear.

Now perhaps one of his circle of friends can go there and play in the bear ooze and make happy too.

I've chosen not to watch the program again. It has aired before and the story has been detailed in several sports magazines.

 

[12-34hom]

Tree huggers unite!

Nuyck - Nuyck - Nuyck - but Moe, i was a victim of circumstances....

12-34hom.

 

[MCgunner]

The wackiness continues.

Treadwell wanted to become a bear, apparently.

However, he would never, ever, ever, actually kill any living creature himself.

Wants to be a bear......won't kill.........

And his four buddies all nodded around the table when one of the wackos, uh, I mean Timothy's friends profoundly opined that hunting is just "misplaced primate aggression," that evil, mean, stupid humans direct against noble, good, superior animals.........

Yeah, okay.....got it.......Apex predator bears are noble and wonderful killers, but humans aren't apex predators, but mean, lowly creatures with "misplaced primate aggression" issues.

Granola hippy eco-worshipping hypocrisy at its finest.



hillbilly

Yep, I figure he was great food for the grizs out there. I sorta wish they'd all follow his lead and go feed the bears, ROF! Maybe the bears would get good and fat and have nice shiny pelts with a good food source like that. Some guy was reading the "hate mail" with such comments in it and I was LMFAO! I feel the same way, LOL! Reality just jumped right up and bit that guy in the arse, literally.

They're talking about that girl beating the bear with a frying pan. I'm thinkin', you know, even a .38 special would do a better job. And the griz ain't the most cunning hunter in the wilderness, I mean amongst bears and other four legged predators. The polar bear is bigger and if he sees a human and he's hungry, it ain't a matter of IF.

It ain't too often you see the eco-freak types out in the wild unless they're out there tying themselves to trees destined for cutting. Most of 'em are a lot happier sitting around a table at Starbucks discussing environmental issues with their hunter hating friends. They don't really wanna leave the air conditioning except as they have to to get to their Lexus in the parking lot. I remember once there were about a half dozen of 'em with protest signed gathered at a boat ramp east of Houston on opening day of a duck season some years ago. The hunters all arrived, launched their boats. The protesters were intent on messing up the hunting by walking around shoooing the birds. Then, they found out they'd be knee deep in marsh muck. Of course they had no waders, no boats, so they adjourned back to the Starbucks for coffee. Never heard of a duck hunting protest in the area after that. ROFLMAO!

This Griz Guy was one of the nuttier of the nut cases I reckon. He actually did go out and practice what he preached and got ate. Too bad they're not out swimming with the gators around here. We could use a good thinning of the herd. We ain't got no bears, but we got plenty of gators than need feeding.

 

[mothernatureson]

treadwell

Man, what can I say that has'nt? This guy has no concept of ecology, he just does not have a clue. I borrowed and worked hard to get my degree in wildlife management, and this boob(sorry ladies), invades the bears territory, harrassing them, and says he is "protectiing the bears". It's just a sham to every wildlife professional, as well as hunters, hikers , fishermen who through their pursuits have educated themselves. I like the end, where his lady friend throws a few ashes(tobacco tin), very few, into the wind. You know, the bears probably did a better job of "scat"tering his flesh and bones. Hooray! What a pain in the ass!
peace
mothernatureson

 

[MCgunner]

Well, for what it's worth (not much, though it cost me a bunch) my degree is in Wildlife and Fisheries science from Texas A&M, though I'm an "aquatic type" as we used to be known in the department there. I reckon this guy was pretty well illiterate. He didn't know much about nature at least!

 

[Double Naught Spy]

So they went with the shortened title for the show? That is a shame. The original was more informative

The Grizzly {Food} Man.

I never figured how Bear Scat Timmy ever thought that he was the only one who was looking out for the bears. The bears didn't think so.

I still think he probably had a much better understanding of bear behavior than most biologists. Unfortunately, he thought he understoood ALL bear behavior and communication and hence was not at risk. Idiot.

 

[Cosmoline]

A lot of people up here, from NPS rangers to real biologists and bear experts, warned Treadwell to knock it off. His methods broke not only NPS regulations and state law, but all the accepted norms of studying brown bear. He interjected himself into the bear's sphere of activity, destroying any possibility of true scientific findings.

He saw himself as a Jane Goodall or Diane Fossey. He thought that, like Fossey, the imaginary "poachers" would come and kill him. Of course, the coastal area he picked to "protect" had never been the site of poaching activity. Since VFR flights often use the coastline as a reference point, it's not unusual for planes to fly over the area and any real poaching would be detected pretty quickly. The people he thought were poachers were usually just people attacted by his weird activity coming in to see if he needed help. If he really wanted to stop poaching, he could have tracked along back roads in the Kenai and Mat-Su looking for snares. But then again if he'd actually found real bear poachers it's not at all clear how he would have stopped them. Harsh language perhaps?

The only reason he got away with his outrageous conduct for so long was because he'd only come up during the salmon runs, when the brown bear (they're not griz) are on their best behavior and a sort of truce exists while they share the salmon feast. The first time he lingered too long after the run, he was eaten.

 

[H&Hhunter]

Cosmoline,

Well said as are the other comments here.

If "Treadwell" and the "Grizzly people" are really interested in stopping poaching and preserving grizzley (brown bear) habitat they should get the hell off of a protected federal reserve and go to where there are some serious problems.

Kamchatka comes to mind. Imagine Mr. Treadwell trying to deal with and negotiate with local native Russian poachers. Now that would be worth the price of ADMISSION!!

Here was my take on the film, I saw it last night on the Discovery channel.

I found the interviews after the main program to be more interesting and enlightening than the show itself.

Treadwell was obviously a mental train wreck waiting to happen. He was obviously a sociopath and was obviously mentaly ill, seriously bi-polar as he had no grounding in reality whatsoever. The girl who was with him Amie, had been going to Alaska with Treadwell for 3 years and if she hadn't figured it out by then she was in the same category.

Some comments from the post program interviews.

"Alaska is nothing more than a den of poaching from top to bottom."

"Because of Treadwell at least they are denying it (poaching) now."

"Hunting is nothing more than redirected primate aggression towards other animals."

My words here about the last quote. The geniuses in Berkley have now connected primates, felines, K-9's, ursines and other predators to a common emotion, "redirected primate aggression." INTERESTING!

"Treadwell was protecting the bears, since his death there have been 6 bears killed in the park by poachers."

I'd like to see some proof on that one.

These are just the more notable ones.

And just wait because we WILL now have Treadwell wanna be's trying to copy his feats.

I'm thinking of opening a new bear chow company. Our mission, Feeding high protein, healthy snacks to brown bears.

Our logo:

"Treadwell's" The food of choice for humanized brown bears the world over!

 

[zealot]

Darwin was right about people like him. The stupid do not survive.

 

[Cosmoline]

The poached bears were in an area of the park Treadwell never went--in a stream running into Lake Iliamna. It's literally on the other side of a mountain range. But to the Treadwell supporters the realities of Alaskan geography don't matter anymore than the realities of Alaskan biology. Certainly there is bear poaching in the state, nobody ever denied it. In fact a lot of Alaskans including many hunters have worked hard to stop it. But that part of the park, along the coast, is the last place real poachers would go. It's way too exposed and overflown too frequently.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Cosmoline, no doubt on Treadwell and getting warnings to which he never paid attention. He basically established a false sense of security for himself and felt comfortable around the bears. Various biologists, rangers, etc. warned him and they warned him based on historic information where the bears have behaved in manners predicted and in manners not predicted.

Where the big disconnect occurred is that Treadwell felt that he could communicate with the bears and maybe he could. But like a drunk in a bar you are trying to convince not to drive or not pick a fight, bears do not always reason out the communications. I am amazed by the fact that Treadwell knew of bears harming one another and yet he felt no danger. If you think about it, who best understands bears and the answer is...other bears, and yet those bears still manage to be in lethal battles, killed for food, etc. For all practical purposes, Treadwell was a largely furless, clawless, short toothed, weak sickly bear as far as the bears might have been concerned...and they finally ate him. That happens to other bears but Treadwell thought himself special.

Zealot, that has got to be one of the worst interpretations of "Darwin" I have ever seen. The stupid most definitely do survive and they often breed quite well. Intelligence is just one facet that may have a positive or negative influence on species survival in regard to passing on the genes. Treadwell was not stupid. If he was stupid, he would have been eaten a long time ago. Treadwell simply made some very bad decisions not based on stupidity, but on a lot of information and he interpreted them wrong. Sure, what he did seems pretty stupid, but Treadwell was not stupid.

Flies, cockroaches, viruses, mold, fungus, etc. are not considered very bright, but by golly they all have survived better than mammals. Mammals are much smarter and have significantly greater cognition abilities but seem to have a far shorter evolutionary span per species. So as it turns out, being smart can actually be an adaptive disadvantage for a species.

You see, there is nothing in Darwin's interpretation of evolution that applies across the board about brain power.

 

[Cosmoline]

Sure, what he did seems pretty stupid, but Treadwell was not stupid.

Stupid is as stupid does. And what he did didn't just *seem* stupid, it was amazingly stupid. And pointless.

He did prove that coastal brown bears will avoid eating people during the salmon runs, but then we already knew that. Sourdough and native wisdom up here has always held that coastal brown bears are most dangerous right after exiting the den and right before going in. Until that last fateful trip, Timmy boy timed his travels so he wouldn't have to spend any cold nights up here. He came in well after breakup and left well before the termination dust. The rest of the time he did the talk show circuit and hung out in Malibu.

From all I've seen, the bears did NOT think of Treadwell as "another bear," though this was what he said he wanted. Coastal brown bear are not pack animals. They congregate around salmon streams in a kind of truce in order to share in the proceeds, but they don't like it. Bear instinctively want to be solitary except for VERY brief mating encounters. Treadwell's constant references to "alpha" females and males revealed the depth of his ignorance. There are no alphas or omegas in the bear world. There's only the one who's strongest that day and has the best salmon catching spot that day. They do not think, hunt, or act in packs. The closest you get to a bear "family" is a sow with cubs, but that's nowhere near as complex as a wolf pack or primate group.

The bear recognized him as a harmless thing, and that's as far as their reasoning went on the matter. They got used to seeing him jumping around, and learned to tolerate him and the smell of man. But their attention was on getting salmon. The first time Treadwell lingered after the run had ended, he was promptly killed and eaten. Any fear of man that would have caused that boar to hesitate before striking or to run from the smell of his own kill had long since been erased by Treadwell's own idiotic efforts to tame these animals.

 

[hillbilly]

After having a night to mull over what I saw, here's my last analysis.

Treadwell was crazy, but crazy in a very specific way.

He was crazy in exactly the same way that David Koresh and Jim Jones were crazy.

He even had a little bit in common with Hitler.

Bear with me here (sorry, pun not intended in any way).

He was completley unhinged from reality, but was extroverted and charismatic enough to attract a group of followers who will forever justify, rationalize, and explain away every single bit of his completely aberrant behavior.

Amongst his followers and groupies (exactly what those four wackos around the table at the film's end are) Treadwell's total lack of connection with reality becomes "a sense of adventure" or a "unique sense of justice."

His desperate attempts to get attention becomes "charm."

His repeated attempts to completely destroy his old identity and create new identies becomes "battling inner demons," or even a sign of advanced intellectual playfulness.

Just like with Koresh, Jones, and even Hitler, those weak-willed and weak-minded who came in contact with the charisimatic crazy person fall fatally under his twisted spell.

In the case of Amie Hugenard, it was literally fatal.

But the four people (ex-girlfriend and cofounder of "Grizzly People, the old surfer buddy, and the married pair of eco-freaks) at the end of the film aren't really Treadwell's old friends....they are his worshippers.

Check out the bit wherein former girl-friend gets the watch the medical examiner took off Treadwell's severed wrist that the bear neglected to eat.

She isn't getting back the last possession of a friend or a lover.

She's getting a sacred relic from a twisted deity.

The folks scattering the ashes at the campground aren't friends performing an act for a friend.

They are acolytes performing a sacred rite.

And in retrospect, that is the truly most disturbing part of that whole movie to me. Even the film-maker himself falls into that twisted spell a little.

Even though he makes several comments throughout the film to show he knows better, he still falls under the Treadwell spell a little.

hillbilly

 

[MCgunner]

Treadwell's constant references to "alpha" females and males revealed the depth of his ignorance. There are no alphas or omegas in the bear world. There's only the one who's strongest that day and has the best salmon catching spot that day. They do not think, hunt, or act in packs. The closest you get to a bear "family" is a sow with cubs, but that's nowhere near as complex as a wolf pack or primate group.

That one passed right over my head when I was watching the show, but you're right, he did talk about "alpha males" which is a term for animals like wolves which run in family groups or "packs". There is no patriarchal society, there is no society in the bear world. Speaking of a male as an "alpha" would be like calling a cat an "alpha" cat, basic ignorance of the way bears live and the guy thought he was some sort of expert.

 

[JohnKSa]

I watched about 15 minutes of the documentary. That was more than long enough to make it glaringly obvious that he was badly unhinged.

I'm amazed at how many people can't see it... Even the film-maker seems to lean toward the idea that he was merely eccentric and a bit overly interested in the bears. I guess he was--but only in the same way that Hitler didn't love Jews much and was a bit interested in gaining power.

 

[H&Hhunter]

Cosmoline, Hillbilly, John,

Very articulate and well thought out observations, thank you.

What bothered me a bit was how the various corporate sponsors were dribbling down there legs to get a BIG spot on this Discovery channel version of the film.

Does corporate America not see what an idiot this guy was? Are the unwashed masses really falling for this crap?

I'm afraid for our society that the answer may well be yes on both accounts.

There are I'm afraid, very few critical free thinking people left in this world. They believe what you tell them and are given their opinions through that 24" color T.V. in the den. Logical, critical thinking scares the hell out people like these.

 

[hillbilly]

H&H, don't fret that much.

My wife and I invented a fun little game while we watched the first part of this train wreck that we missed last night.

I think you might feel a little better if you played our little game.

Get on Yahoo.com or google, or some other search engine.

Keyboard in "Timothy Treadwel" and the word "and" after it.

Then, fill in the blank, and see how many hits you get.

Some of our biggest hit combinations were as follows

"Timothy Treadwell" and insane
"Timothy Treadwell" and nuts
"Timothy Treadwell" and deluded
"Timothy Treadwell" and crazy
"Timothy Treadwell" and psychotic
"Timothy Treadwell" and psycho

I think the sheer number of hits you'll get playing such a game just might make you feel a little better.

Try this one for giggles..........

"Timothy Treadwell" and "bat sh?t insane"

hillbilly