sacp81170a
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Especially for biting...
What to do against a grappler...
- Thread starter Avalanche2082
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Especially for biting...
IndianaBoy
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Not in my experience.
It takes significant force to destroy a joint (not counting fingers). It is much easier to choke someone out if you have their back. And it doesn't take very long. It isn't about air either, if I have an arm around your neck I can cut off the flow of blood to your brain. You have from 10-15 seconds.... probably.
This is from my experience of 6 years of wrestling and having choked a few people out. Bones are hard...... ligaments are strong. Blood vessels are easily 'squishy'.
I would fear a knife more than a gun if I were going to attempt to attack someone I knew nothing about... from behind.. with the intent of knocking them out via neck hold.
Glock Glockler
Member
Probably the best thing would be to work against the assumptions that a grappler will probably have: most of them are training in a gym with padded mats and plenty of rules. Most of the ground stuff taught becomes a lot more painful when doing it on concrete or a hard floor, some slight shifts in weight and angle can result in his knee, elbow, or fist hitting the ground instead of you. Any walls or furniture can also be used in similar fashion, his and your clothes can also be used in unorthodox ways as well as the nastier stuff already mentioned.
That being said, if you're looking to your gun as your first line of defense you're making a huge mistake. A gun is just a tool, and drawing it is a risk that might or might not pay off, when you go to draw it you're moving backwards, away from the threat, so that until it's drawn and ready to fire that limb is occupied. Also, is the person's mind occupied with drawing the gun and not interacting with the sutuation properly, thinking only about the gun as opposed to everything else going on.
What would Jason Bourne do? If he saw that some guy was getting aggressive he'd throw his hot coffee in the guy's eyes and then go to work. The gun is the tool, not the master.
Bas Rutten told an awesome story about some hecklers at a seminar of his laughing at a rear naked choke. The hecklers apparently said that they could easily get out of the choke by poking out his eyes. Bas told them, "Okay, I want to try this out, so let me put you in the choke and when you try to poke me, I'm going to snap your neck."
I'm not sure I understand the point, if someone if going to try to choke me out on the street why would I assume that he won't try to break my neck regardless of whether I try to get out of the hold or not? Something might or might not be successful against something else but I think your odds are a lot better then doing nothing.
That being said, if you're looking to your gun as your first line of defense you're making a huge mistake. A gun is just a tool, and drawing it is a risk that might or might not pay off, when you go to draw it you're moving backwards, away from the threat, so that until it's drawn and ready to fire that limb is occupied. Also, is the person's mind occupied with drawing the gun and not interacting with the sutuation properly, thinking only about the gun as opposed to everything else going on.
What would Jason Bourne do? If he saw that some guy was getting aggressive he'd throw his hot coffee in the guy's eyes and then go to work. The gun is the tool, not the master.
Bas Rutten told an awesome story about some hecklers at a seminar of his laughing at a rear naked choke. The hecklers apparently said that they could easily get out of the choke by poking out his eyes. Bas told them, "Okay, I want to try this out, so let me put you in the choke and when you try to poke me, I'm going to snap your neck."
I'm not sure I understand the point, if someone if going to try to choke me out on the street why would I assume that he won't try to break my neck regardless of whether I try to get out of the hold or not? Something might or might not be successful against something else but I think your odds are a lot better then doing nothing.
I mentioned MMA because it is becoming more popular, and is something people could realistically try out. Yes it's a bit overhyped, perhaps, but to write it off as "the new Bruce Lee" is a bit silly. Bruce Lee was effective. MMA is effective.
The point is, get involved with a grappling art so you know at least what it looks and feels like. Otherwise, you could be dealing with a very dangerous unknown.
Yes, concrete makes things quite a lot more painful. Remember that successful tackles ends up with YOU on the ground, and your ATTACKER recovering through and using the momentum to slam you into a lock or choke. Even if his elbow is misaligned, it's YOUR head approaching concrete at high speed.
Given enough leverage, things like elbows and fingers are not hard to break. How many of us, realistically, could continue to fight with a broken elbow?
The point is, get involved with a grappling art so you know at least what it looks and feels like. Otherwise, you could be dealing with a very dangerous unknown.
Yes, concrete makes things quite a lot more painful. Remember that successful tackles ends up with YOU on the ground, and your ATTACKER recovering through and using the momentum to slam you into a lock or choke. Even if his elbow is misaligned, it's YOUR head approaching concrete at high speed.
Given enough leverage, things like elbows and fingers are not hard to break. How many of us, realistically, could continue to fight with a broken elbow?
I am not quite sure why there is all the awe over grapplers/mma/bjj/whatever.
The style is not magic(1) and the practitioners are not supermen. Also, the likelihood that you'll be targeted by one of the guys who do it lightning-quick professionally on pay-per-view is pretty small.
They are as dangerous as any person who has trained in open-hand technique and is criminally-minded.
As has been stated, the best defense (after avoidance) is training in a similar style and physical conditioning. Thing is, the less technology used in self-defense usually translates into more time being needed to master the self-defense technique(2).
For the person who will forgo months of BJJ training, adding a knife to your carried objects might be the trick. Biker mentioned this before, as did others. I would add that one keep it available to be drawn & used by your weak hand, while your concealed firearm is accessible by your strong hand. Give yourself options if your strong arm is tied up.
Whether it is a snubby stuffed into their belly or a folding knife lacerating thier hind-parts, a weapon will help equalize the disparity of open-hand, ground-fighting competence.
Stay safe.
(1) When I did BJJ, it reminded me a whole lot of my high-school wrestling. I thought of it as, "wrestling for keeps."
(2) Compare open-hand vs melee weapon vs ranged firearm. It takes months to get good at open-hand technique, but a newbie can put lead into COM at 7 yards in a few hours.
The style is not magic(1) and the practitioners are not supermen. Also, the likelihood that you'll be targeted by one of the guys who do it lightning-quick professionally on pay-per-view is pretty small.
They are as dangerous as any person who has trained in open-hand technique and is criminally-minded.
As has been stated, the best defense (after avoidance) is training in a similar style and physical conditioning. Thing is, the less technology used in self-defense usually translates into more time being needed to master the self-defense technique(2).
For the person who will forgo months of BJJ training, adding a knife to your carried objects might be the trick. Biker mentioned this before, as did others. I would add that one keep it available to be drawn & used by your weak hand, while your concealed firearm is accessible by your strong hand. Give yourself options if your strong arm is tied up.
Whether it is a snubby stuffed into their belly or a folding knife lacerating thier hind-parts, a weapon will help equalize the disparity of open-hand, ground-fighting competence.
Stay safe.
(1) When I did BJJ, it reminded me a whole lot of my high-school wrestling. I thought of it as, "wrestling for keeps."
(2) Compare open-hand vs melee weapon vs ranged firearm. It takes months to get good at open-hand technique, but a newbie can put lead into COM at 7 yards in a few hours.
It...doesn't...matter. The goal in any violent conflict is to be the one doing the violence (causing injuries.) Skills and tools don't change anatomy or physics. You either injure them and end it, or they injure you and end it. No need to think up different strategies for different scenarios/opponents when you won't even know which one to pick anyway.
As far a disarming 2 guns...he can have them stacked like wood in his arms. If you clear the field of fire and start injuring him it doesn't matter. He can keep the gun(s). Once you move in aggressively and off-line, the "other" gun will be on the other side of his body from you anyway. Once you rupture his testicles (insert any horrible injury here) I dare say he won't be going "Matrix" with his dual Beretta 93's anymore.
This isn't a competition...just destroy them any way you can.
As far a disarming 2 guns...he can have them stacked like wood in his arms. If you clear the field of fire and start injuring him it doesn't matter. He can keep the gun(s). Once you move in aggressively and off-line, the "other" gun will be on the other side of his body from you anyway. Once you rupture his testicles (insert any horrible injury here) I dare say he won't be going "Matrix" with his dual Beretta 93's anymore.
This isn't a competition...just destroy them any way you can.
"I am going to take Stone cold in the Steel cage and murderize him, I am going to hit him so hard, his kids are going to feel it... I am going to pummel him I tell you, What are you gonna due Steve, when I get you in the ring and give you the spinning toe hold?"
It is hype. MMA, is effective if you are lucky enough to be fighting one guy, on a relatively soft surface and are bigger, stronger, faster and have the drop on the guy... I was in a "rear naked choke"; when the guy passed out from bloodloss or pain i am not sure, as his buddies swarmed me and got him out of their, after having his ear ripped off... End of story.
Practice drawing at contact range... You cannot afford to "fight fair" or nice, as there are more likely two guys... Predators always attack from surprise. Train, watch, think, practice, practice and then practice some more. Do not depend on your hands or weapons, depend on your brain. Escape and Evasion is the rule... Surivial is the result.
Having trained in firearm retention while wrestling or being tackled, I can tell you that when you try it out, WITH A BLUE GUN, you will quickly find that having an appendix carry will aide you in many ways while you are on the ground. It is much easier to defend. It is possible to draw, unlike with a 4 o'clock, when someone is on top of you.
I can also promise you that if you shoot someone who tackles you, you will most likely go to jail, depending on the situation. It is ability, intent, and opprotunity. A normal person would have to believe that the person has the intent to kill you or seriously injure you before you can use lethal force.
I call BS on the "break your neck" story. The point of the rear naked choke isn't to break someone's neck, in fact it would be a poor position to break someone's neck, and I can tell you that it would take about 5 seconds to put someone out if you have your hook in and you are deep. The rear naked choke has absolutely nothing to do with choking the airway but rather choking the blood supply. It doesn't allow the blood to leave the brain and so the brain shuts down.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kD-omHfiLbI
If you notice it takes about 10 seconds but he is obviously being very gentle with her and is making every attempt to not hurt her.
Think about it. You can hold your breath for 1-2 minutes easy before passing out. It has nothing to do with air.
I can also promise you that if you shoot someone who tackles you, you will most likely go to jail, depending on the situation. It is ability, intent, and opprotunity. A normal person would have to believe that the person has the intent to kill you or seriously injure you before you can use lethal force.
I call BS on the "break your neck" story. The point of the rear naked choke isn't to break someone's neck, in fact it would be a poor position to break someone's neck, and I can tell you that it would take about 5 seconds to put someone out if you have your hook in and you are deep. The rear naked choke has absolutely nothing to do with choking the airway but rather choking the blood supply. It doesn't allow the blood to leave the brain and so the brain shuts down.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kD-omHfiLbI
If you notice it takes about 10 seconds but he is obviously being very gentle with her and is making every attempt to not hurt her.
Think about it. You can hold your breath for 1-2 minutes easy before passing out. It has nothing to do with air.
Glockler-
My point is that some who know how to grapple are actually in tune with the
dirty tricks and that they can be very aggressive.
mbt2001-
Clearly that guy didn't know what he was in for when he got off the mats and into a street fight. Good work on being aggressive and not letting the situation own you.
sfc123-
The point isn't of the effectiveness of the specific technique that Rutten mentioned, the point is that even though people are trained in the sport applications of MMA, that some will actually allow themselves to use a full range of tactics when faced with a serious situation.
My point is that some who know how to grapple are actually in tune with the
dirty tricks and that they can be very aggressive.
mbt2001-
Clearly that guy didn't know what he was in for when he got off the mats and into a street fight. Good work on being aggressive and not letting the situation own you.
sfc123-
The point isn't of the effectiveness of the specific technique that Rutten mentioned, the point is that even though people are trained in the sport applications of MMA, that some will actually allow themselves to use a full range of tactics when faced with a serious situation.
Will Learn
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"Let me just say this... MMA is the new "Bruce Lee". They are no more dangerous than anyone else. What you see in the MMA / UFC matches are just another RULE BASED martial art put in an arena where it is allowed to shine. The point is, in the MMA matches, there are rules. First take a look at the ring, it is padded and the fighters are wearing pads on the fists, wrists. Second, you are not allowed to grab “the cage”, gouge eyes, rabbit punch (punch to back of head), et cetera.
In a “real fight”, there are no rules. We have all heard this 10,000 times and that is the point. If someone tries to grapple, or rushes you GRAB THEIR EAR AND RIP IT OFF, GOUGE THEIR EYES, PUNCH IN THE BACK OF THE HEAD, et cetera."
I thinks its kind of foolish and naive to scoff at MMA like this. It is not a single designated martial art(hence the term mixed martial art) and fighters use whatever skills they have to win fights. Yes, MMA is sanctioned by an athletic commission in most cases, but they have to be in order to abide by state law. To discard the the whole wealth of knowledge that is MMA/full contact fighting because you can't eye gouge or bite(or other street fighting techniques) is ignorant. Learning how to fight without weapons or underhanded techniques will still give you a significant advantage over someone who doesn't. Also a lot of schools/gyms will incorporate street fighting techniques for self defense outside of the ring. Those pads on their hands are 4oz gloves that are there to protect the knuckles not fighters heads/bodies.
I guarantee you MMA/FCF is the closest thing your going to find to a real street fight, especially when compared to conventional board breaking martial arts. MMA came into the spotlight in the early 90's as a way to pit martial artists from different disciplines against each other(with no rules for the most part) to find out what was most effective form. Since then it has developed into a hybrid martial art that incorporates all martial arts.
I have been involved in the sport since 93' and wrestling before that in school and still am baffled at the progression of full contact fighting techniques. It seems that people with, lets say "traditional" fighting knowledge scoff at new techniques/technologies because they can't keep up with them. Reading anatomy books and trying and strike my pressure points with precision in a fight is not very realistic as someone isn't going to just stand still. You'd probably be better off putting a snake in my boot.
"BJJ is worthless" Roll with me on the mat for tens minutes and we'll see if you still feel the same after words.
Sorry for the rant guys but I think there is a lot can be learned from MMA/FCF and I don't think that should be overlooked due to it's popularity rise in the past few years. Sure anyone can watch The Ultimate Fighter on Spike TV while drinking beer with their buddy's and yell out moves they would do at the TV. That doesn't mean the sport is some novelty gimmick that is surely to be a passing phase. Try and stay open minded and take what you can from it.
Again, sorry for the rant.
In a “real fight”, there are no rules. We have all heard this 10,000 times and that is the point. If someone tries to grapple, or rushes you GRAB THEIR EAR AND RIP IT OFF, GOUGE THEIR EYES, PUNCH IN THE BACK OF THE HEAD, et cetera."
I thinks its kind of foolish and naive to scoff at MMA like this. It is not a single designated martial art(hence the term mixed martial art) and fighters use whatever skills they have to win fights. Yes, MMA is sanctioned by an athletic commission in most cases, but they have to be in order to abide by state law. To discard the the whole wealth of knowledge that is MMA/full contact fighting because you can't eye gouge or bite(or other street fighting techniques) is ignorant. Learning how to fight without weapons or underhanded techniques will still give you a significant advantage over someone who doesn't. Also a lot of schools/gyms will incorporate street fighting techniques for self defense outside of the ring. Those pads on their hands are 4oz gloves that are there to protect the knuckles not fighters heads/bodies.
I guarantee you MMA/FCF is the closest thing your going to find to a real street fight, especially when compared to conventional board breaking martial arts. MMA came into the spotlight in the early 90's as a way to pit martial artists from different disciplines against each other(with no rules for the most part) to find out what was most effective form. Since then it has developed into a hybrid martial art that incorporates all martial arts.
I have been involved in the sport since 93' and wrestling before that in school and still am baffled at the progression of full contact fighting techniques. It seems that people with, lets say "traditional" fighting knowledge scoff at new techniques/technologies because they can't keep up with them. Reading anatomy books and trying and strike my pressure points with precision in a fight is not very realistic as someone isn't going to just stand still. You'd probably be better off putting a snake in my boot.
"BJJ is worthless" Roll with me on the mat for tens minutes and we'll see if you still feel the same after words.
Sorry for the rant guys but I think there is a lot can be learned from MMA/FCF and I don't think that should be overlooked due to it's popularity rise in the past few years. Sure anyone can watch The Ultimate Fighter on Spike TV while drinking beer with their buddy's and yell out moves they would do at the TV. That doesn't mean the sport is some novelty gimmick that is surely to be a passing phase. Try and stay open minded and take what you can from it.
Again, sorry for the rant.
i would like to say that you are completely correct. if i was to roll around on the mat like a friendly little bunny of course you would decimate me. MMA is a complete joke. I tried out for it, there are a host of "rules" that you have to follow and they completely cripple any style of closed fist kempo. If your willing to eliminate all of these "rules" i would be more than happy to spar with you. Look up the fights in korea or the fights in the phillipeans you will not find a single grappler in those fights past the first round. This is because in a REAL fight wrestling doesnt work against anyone with a brain and a decent sense of balance.
edit: i forgot to add... i never even went to ring, i was not willing to agree to a "realistic fight" where 90% of my style would be crippled. That is THE reason that grappling dominates the MMA.
devilc
Member
There is no silver bullet, that said:
The disdain here for MMA styles and JiuJitsu is comical and evidences a degree of fantasy on the part of the nay-sayers.
There is a good solid reason Brazilian JiuJitsu has formed the core of the combatives systems used by the Army and Marines, most federal LE agencies, and a growing number of police departments.
It works and allows the practitioner to train kinetically.
True, no regimen CAN allow you to consitantly and realistically practice eye gouges and other "dirty" moves - but BJJ does allow the practitioner to become familiar with MOST of what can be thrown at them in a street fight - be it from one opponent or 3.
There are only so many ways one can be choked, bear hugged, or punched - be it standing or on the ground. BJJ seeks to make responses to such acts and interactions muscle memory and intuitive.
The disdain here for MMA styles and JiuJitsu is comical and evidences a degree of fantasy on the part of the nay-sayers.
There is a good solid reason Brazilian JiuJitsu has formed the core of the combatives systems used by the Army and Marines, most federal LE agencies, and a growing number of police departments.
It works and allows the practitioner to train kinetically.
True, no regimen CAN allow you to consitantly and realistically practice eye gouges and other "dirty" moves - but BJJ does allow the practitioner to become familiar with MOST of what can be thrown at them in a street fight - be it from one opponent or 3.
There are only so many ways one can be choked, bear hugged, or punched - be it standing or on the ground. BJJ seeks to make responses to such acts and interactions muscle memory and intuitive.
have you ever seen army combatives? they START on the ground. All that ju jitsu stuff is bs that they are teaching these people. When is a soldier in the field unarmed? They ALWAYS have a rifle (m4) with them... (yeah you cant shoot them, but i know for a fact you can butt stomp them). and the reason they are teaching that crap to le's is because le's need to be able to detain someone... DETAIN someone. not hurt someone. and with the way our military is trying to capture NOT kill... thats why they are teaching ju jitsu. dont get it twisted my friend, there is not a soul on the planet that does his homework that in life and death would want to wrestle around on the ground.
Will Learn
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"I was not willing to agree to a "realistic fight" where 90% of my style would be crippled"
If 90% of your style will be crippled because you can't eye gouge or bite you might want to consider changing styles.
"MMA is a complete joke." LOL, why because it cripples your one dimensional style? Plus there are plenty of fighters who use kempo in MMA along with other techniques to make them a well rounded fighter. And just because a person is capable of grappling doesn't mean they can't employ head butts or eye gouges etc... in fact it could put them in a better position to use those techniques. If being able break arms and legs and choke someone until they are unconscious makes you a "friendly little bunny" then I guess I'm Peter Rabbit.
"This is because in a REAL fight wrestling dosnt work against anyone with a brain and a decent sense of balance." Well it doesn't hurt, but I'm sure it won't stand up to real kick ass, mullet wearing, kempo killers with dragons on their shirts.
Nix- tell me what rules in MMA "cripple" your style. All American bad-ass, machismo aside try broadening your horizons as far as fighting and you'll probably benefit from it.
"I figure that they may have a black belt in brazillian jiu-jitsu but i have a 2x4 in American street fighting. Imagination and determination have won countless fights and saved countless lives." So, do you carry that 2x4 on your hip or in a ankle holster? What do you plan on doing if you don't have anything to grab or don't have anything on you?
Schools have argued forever about who's school/style is better than the rest but I don't see the harm and taking the best from them all to be a better fighter for myself.
If 90% of your style will be crippled because you can't eye gouge or bite you might want to consider changing styles.
"MMA is a complete joke." LOL, why because it cripples your one dimensional style? Plus there are plenty of fighters who use kempo in MMA along with other techniques to make them a well rounded fighter. And just because a person is capable of grappling doesn't mean they can't employ head butts or eye gouges etc... in fact it could put them in a better position to use those techniques. If being able break arms and legs and choke someone until they are unconscious makes you a "friendly little bunny" then I guess I'm Peter Rabbit.
"This is because in a REAL fight wrestling dosnt work against anyone with a brain and a decent sense of balance." Well it doesn't hurt, but I'm sure it won't stand up to real kick ass, mullet wearing, kempo killers with dragons on their shirts.
Nix- tell me what rules in MMA "cripple" your style. All American bad-ass, machismo aside try broadening your horizons as far as fighting and you'll probably benefit from it.
"I figure that they may have a black belt in brazillian jiu-jitsu but i have a 2x4 in American street fighting. Imagination and determination have won countless fights and saved countless lives." So, do you carry that 2x4 on your hip or in a ankle holster? What do you plan on doing if you don't have anything to grab or don't have anything on you?
Schools have argued forever about who's school/style is better than the rest but I don't see the harm and taking the best from them all to be a better fighter for myself.
Will Learn
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"There is no silver bullet, that said:
The disdain here for MMA styles and JiuJitsu is comical and evidences a degree of fantasy on the part of the nay-sayers.
There is a good solid reason Brazilian JiuJitsu has formed the core of the combatives systems used by the Army and Marines, most federal LE agencies, and a growing number of police departments.
It works and allows the practitioner to train kinetically.
True, no regimen CAN allow you to consitantly and realistically practice eye gouges and other "dirty" moves - but BJJ does allow the practitioner to become familiar with MOST of what can be thrown at them in a street fight - be it from one opponent or 3.
There are only so many ways one can be choked, bear hugged, or punched - be it standing or on the ground. BJJ seeks to make responses to such acts and interactions muscle memory and intuitive."
+1
The disdain here for MMA styles and JiuJitsu is comical and evidences a degree of fantasy on the part of the nay-sayers.
There is a good solid reason Brazilian JiuJitsu has formed the core of the combatives systems used by the Army and Marines, most federal LE agencies, and a growing number of police departments.
It works and allows the practitioner to train kinetically.
True, no regimen CAN allow you to consitantly and realistically practice eye gouges and other "dirty" moves - but BJJ does allow the practitioner to become familiar with MOST of what can be thrown at them in a street fight - be it from one opponent or 3.
There are only so many ways one can be choked, bear hugged, or punched - be it standing or on the ground. BJJ seeks to make responses to such acts and interactions muscle memory and intuitive."
+1
"all american badass" i grew up in tokyo my friend. and TRUE martial arts are not "self defense"
they are designed to kill the other person, or to seriously maim them. I have trained in ju jitsu (my sensei felt it necessary to complete my form) and i have yet to have a reason to take things to the ground.
"eye gouging" are you kidding me? throat attacks, deliberate bone breaks, strikes to the ear, strikes to the back of the neck and many others are all not allowed. Closed fist kempo is designed to destroy the opponent and they do not allow you to do so in mma. I am far from a "one dimentional fighter" as i have trained in kempo, aikido and ju jitsu. I have worked elements of all 3 into my style, but taking things to the ground is NEVER good in a street fight. If the person happens to have friends... you are in the worst possible situation.
So you my friend need to try and live outside of your little padded ring world and open your eyes to what the world is really like.
and yes schools have argued... but the families dont. Ju jitsu was NOT designed without weapons, americans changed it to that (look up the actualy history of ju jitsu)
they are designed to kill the other person, or to seriously maim them. I have trained in ju jitsu (my sensei felt it necessary to complete my form) and i have yet to have a reason to take things to the ground.
"eye gouging" are you kidding me? throat attacks, deliberate bone breaks, strikes to the ear, strikes to the back of the neck and many others are all not allowed. Closed fist kempo is designed to destroy the opponent and they do not allow you to do so in mma. I am far from a "one dimentional fighter" as i have trained in kempo, aikido and ju jitsu. I have worked elements of all 3 into my style, but taking things to the ground is NEVER good in a street fight. If the person happens to have friends... you are in the worst possible situation.
So you my friend need to try and live outside of your little padded ring world and open your eyes to what the world is really like.
and yes schools have argued... but the families dont. Ju jitsu was NOT designed without weapons, americans changed it to that (look up the actualy history of ju jitsu)
03Shadowbob
Member
I love reading stories on the internet of all these bad asses all around me. It never ceases to amaze me that I am in the midst of all these natural born killers. LOL. MMA is like Bruce Lee HAHAHAHAHA. Everyone knows Bruce Lee could destroy superman if he wanted too.
And to answer the original question, Biker has it right.
And to answer the original question, Biker has it right.
JMusic
member
I see nothing wrong with all the bravado from some of the believers in their own fighting style. Fights though are battles of endurance. I have not seen one style dominate. I have seen superior fighters dominate. If your young and want to hit the mats or gloves and bags 3-4 times a week for years have at it, it won't hurt. But don't mistake your fighting art for Self Defense it is not the same. You may be able to defend yourself with your fighting style and you may not. Nothing beats awareness, distance, clubs/canes and other weapons. More importantly is have a buddy or group. Good luck have fun and I hope you/all survive you training period.
Jim
Jim
Will Learn
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"all american badass" i grew up in tokyo my friend. and TRUE martial arts are not "self defense"
I didn't call you a all American bad ass. "All American bad-ass, machismo" I was referring to the chest thumping going on in this thread.
"TRUE martial arts are not "self defense""
I didn't say anything about self defense and I do know that jui-jitsu was created by samurai's to use after they lost their sword. The Brazilians revamped the style to use against larger opponents"small-man jui-jitsu".
You can't use strikes to the neck or throat in sanctioned MMA but the sure wouldn't be that hard to incorporate into you repertoire of techniques for street fights. You can however use strikes to the ear and deliberate bone breaks(no small joint manipulation thought).
"I have trained in ju jitsu (my sensei felt it necessary to complete my form) and i have yet to have a reason to take things to the ground." Thats the point I'm trying to get across, its good to know these techniques and be well rounded.
"Closed fist kempo is designed to destroy the opponent and they do not allow you to do so in mma." Well other than the few strikes you mentioned I think you could definitely use most Kempo techniques in MMA, one kempo fighter is coming to mind, Keith Hackney http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYoF3F3nbBY sorry for the crap music. hes fighting a giant though, 650lb yarborough.
"So you my friend need to try and live outside of your little padded ring world and open your eyes to what the world is really like." Unfortunately the majority of the fights in my life have been outside the ring(misspent youth) but now I don't fight unless I have to or unless I'm going to get paid. Either way my eyes ARE open.
I think we might have gotten off on the wrong foot but I hope we can continue to share ideas/techniques that can help fellow THR members without insulting other styles.
I didn't call you a all American bad ass. "All American bad-ass, machismo" I was referring to the chest thumping going on in this thread.
"TRUE martial arts are not "self defense""
I didn't say anything about self defense and I do know that jui-jitsu was created by samurai's to use after they lost their sword. The Brazilians revamped the style to use against larger opponents"small-man jui-jitsu".
You can't use strikes to the neck or throat in sanctioned MMA but the sure wouldn't be that hard to incorporate into you repertoire of techniques for street fights. You can however use strikes to the ear and deliberate bone breaks(no small joint manipulation thought).
"I have trained in ju jitsu (my sensei felt it necessary to complete my form) and i have yet to have a reason to take things to the ground." Thats the point I'm trying to get across, its good to know these techniques and be well rounded.
"Closed fist kempo is designed to destroy the opponent and they do not allow you to do so in mma." Well other than the few strikes you mentioned I think you could definitely use most Kempo techniques in MMA, one kempo fighter is coming to mind, Keith Hackney http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYoF3F3nbBY sorry for the crap music. hes fighting a giant though, 650lb yarborough.
"So you my friend need to try and live outside of your little padded ring world and open your eyes to what the world is really like." Unfortunately the majority of the fights in my life have been outside the ring(misspent youth) but now I don't fight unless I have to or unless I'm going to get paid. Either way my eyes ARE open.
I think we might have gotten off on the wrong foot but I hope we can continue to share ideas/techniques that can help fellow THR members without insulting other styles.
The minute this degenerated into a debate over which competitive fighting style was best it became off topic.
Everything that is posted here is a way. There is no one way solution for every problem.
Jeff
Everything that is posted here is a way. There is no one way solution for every problem.
Jeff
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