Why Are American Jews So Anti-Gun?
- Thread starter Drizzt
- Start date
- Status
FourTeeFive
Member
Of course if you're at shooting events and NRA events you will find Jews. The broad stroke is absolutely correct. Some of my shooting buddies are Jewish. But the vast majority of Jews I know outside of my shooting interests, and in various cities that I've lived in, are quite liberal and anti-gun. I've got a few Jewish buddies who are really into BBQ'ing pork ribs, but that isn't any representation of the Jewish American community as a whole.
bogie
Member
One of the things that may stifle the visibility of Jewish folks in the gun culture is the inevitable thug table that shows up at gun shows... You know, the one with the reproduction Hitler Yout daggers, all the flags to hang in your basement while you practice your goosestepping in your pleather boots, etc., etc...
IMHO, the gun culture needs to police itself, and it needs to rid itself of the Illinois Nazis and the Kluckers...
IMHO, the gun culture needs to police itself, and it needs to rid itself of the Illinois Nazis and the Kluckers...
threefeathers
member
When I was in Israel in 1977 an Israeli buddy jokingly told me, "In 1947 the Jews with guts came to Israel the Jews without guts went to the U.S."
That is over simplistic, but it carry's some truth.
At the same time I suspect that a longitudinal study will find that many Jewish immigrants from Eastern Europe felt more at home in a Socialist situation so they settled in more liberal neighborhoods and reflect the moray's of those areas.
That is over simplistic, but it carry's some truth.
At the same time I suspect that a longitudinal study will find that many Jewish immigrants from Eastern Europe felt more at home in a Socialist situation so they settled in more liberal neighborhoods and reflect the moray's of those areas.
Bogie,
As much as I often agree with you, and as much as I dislike certain groups, I have to somewhat disagree with you.
We should be very careful when we start "getting rid" of people lest we BECOME just like those persons we would wish to get "rid" of.
I'm still in the school of thought that either EVERYTHING is OK, or NOTHING is OK.
-- John
--
As much as I often agree with you, and as much as I dislike certain groups, I have to somewhat disagree with you.
We should be very careful when we start "getting rid" of people lest we BECOME just like those persons we would wish to get "rid" of.
I'm still in the school of thought that either EVERYTHING is OK, or NOTHING is OK.
-- John
--
Works for me.
"The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs" Mark Twain
I wonder if we should ask the Board of Directors at the Second Amendment Foundation, or the Heads of Jews For The Preservation Of Firearms Ownership In America how they REALLY feel about gun control? I'd trust a Jew with a gun more than I'd trust a Democrat. ML
"The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs" Mark Twain
I wonder if we should ask the Board of Directors at the Second Amendment Foundation, or the Heads of Jews For The Preservation Of Firearms Ownership In America how they REALLY feel about gun control? I'd trust a Jew with a gun more than I'd trust a Democrat. ML
It's a BIG "IF"
Alyaska:: "" Yes, do check out the Mountain Meadow Massacre. Don't forget to research the parts that get left out: The Mormon people had been violently removed from their homes and lands more times than some could remember because they practiced their own faith. ""
"If I were allowed to practice my deep-felt faith beliefs, there would be a certain segment of our Society which would be in deep jeopardy of survival. And I'm part of a majority." I'm jus' sayin' . . . . . . .
Alyaska:: "" Yes, do check out the Mountain Meadow Massacre. Don't forget to research the parts that get left out: The Mormon people had been violently removed from their homes and lands more times than some could remember because they practiced their own faith. ""
"If I were allowed to practice my deep-felt faith beliefs, there would be a certain segment of our Society which would be in deep jeopardy of survival. And I'm part of a majority." I'm jus' sayin' . . . . . . .
bogie
Member
Thing is, Joe Anchor take a concealed camera into a gun show, and what table does he go to? Not the one with the high school rifle team doing a fundraising raffle - Nawp... He makes a beeline for the fellow with the shaved head and 12-pack abs who is selling copies of the Turner Diaries...
IMHO, we need to let these folks know that they've got the right to own guns (unless they're felons - wonder how many...), and that they've got the right to free speech, but that the gun culture as a whole also has the right to tell them to go find somewhere else to spew. I'm not saying that they can't spew. I just don't appreciate them doing it around me.
IMHO, we need to let these folks know that they've got the right to own guns (unless they're felons - wonder how many...), and that they've got the right to free speech, but that the gun culture as a whole also has the right to tell them to go find somewhere else to spew. I'm not saying that they can't spew. I just don't appreciate them doing it around me.
Just wondering...
Since there are 300 million people in the USA, and only 5 million are Jewish (1.5% of the population), and since most of the rest of us are Christians... the vast majority of the American anti-gun crowd are Christians. Furthermore, Christians are, and have been persecuted throughout their history So let me ask this: Why Are American Christians So Anti-Gun?
(BTW, I am an ordained Minister and I do not live in California!)
Since there are 300 million people in the USA, and only 5 million are Jewish (1.5% of the population), and since most of the rest of us are Christians... the vast majority of the American anti-gun crowd are Christians. Furthermore, Christians are, and have been persecuted throughout their history So let me ask this: Why Are American Christians So Anti-Gun?
(BTW, I am an ordained Minister and I do not live in California!)
Tom Fury
Member
Why are Christians so anti-gun
Because they've been taught to be by their leaders; They've been taught to be nice, and passive, and that self defense is wrong. There is much to answer for.
TF
Because they've been taught to be by their leaders; They've been taught to be nice, and passive, and that self defense is wrong. There is much to answer for.
TF
Didn't read the whole thread but anway I come from a Jewish family and my mom is very anti-gun, at least when I was growing up. MY uncle in AZ invited me over (I was around 12) and they didn't let me go because he has guns (around 70) and they canceled the junior NRA membership he got me. Check out this clip.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ntov9g1vK00
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ntov9g1vK00
Pigspitter
Member
- Joined
- Aug 31, 2007
- Messages
- 614
I seriously saw a North Korean uniform and flag booth at a gun show one time. They had a sign that said "The commies should have won". I don't remember seeing them the next day.
bogie wrote:
True.
I WOULD say that they would not be there if there was no profit motive there-- meaning that if people didn't spend money with them, they would disappear.
But that, I suspect isn't the motive of some tables, I suspect.
But I don't know... We really don't have that stuff at gun shows down here-- so I am just speculating.
I'm not against interesting authentic pieces of history, but that isn't what we are talking about here.
-- John
True.
I WOULD say that they would not be there if there was no profit motive there-- meaning that if people didn't spend money with them, they would disappear.
But that, I suspect isn't the motive of some tables, I suspect.
But I don't know... We really don't have that stuff at gun shows down here-- so I am just speculating.
I'm not against interesting authentic pieces of history, but that isn't what we are talking about here.
-- John
rockinrussky
Member
I've only known 2 Jewish people really well over the years. One is from Long Island. Can you guess what her stance is? Very much anti gun and in general very liberal. Another guy I know is an Israeli jew, who owns a weapons shop and was at one of the more recent gun shows in town. I think you can guess his stance on guns.
If we go down the road of generalization, we may as well look more at the persons's geographic background rather than religious.
If we go down the road of generalization, we may as well look more at the persons's geographic background rather than religious.
chaim
Member
You called (lets see if this works)
(me)
Nope. I'm an Orthodox Jew (some would say "ultra-Orthodox" though the correct terms are "Black Hat" or Charedi). While most Orthodox Jews I know do not own guns, most are very right-wing in outlook, those who are political are Republicans, and most are pro-gun. Quite a few have asked for me to take them shooting and some have expressed interest in enlisting my help in buying their first gun.
Last edited:
Carl N. Brown
Member
religion, killing and self defense
Last summer I worked on the (Catholic) Orthodox Study Bible
(converting Word files to tagged Quark for the typesetter) and
I noticed the relevant Commandment was translated you shall not
MURDER.
If gun control advocates quote the Bible at all, they quote the
commandmant "Thou shalt not kill." The Hebrew word translated
in the KJV 1610AD English translation as "kill" is a word
pronounced "rahd-sahk" and actually means murder or criminal
homicide: the Bible is full of sanctioned killing from warfare,
to ritual sacrifice, to Nimrod hunting, to self defense. What
makes murder a sin is the motivation, not the act of killing.
Killing in defense of innocent life is sanctioned by scripture:
the Talmud advises: "If someone comes to kill you, arise quickly
and kill him."
Note that this is defense of life.
A general reading of the biblical law is that a threat to property
only does not deserve death, but the thief should be bound by law
to make restitution. However, a thief who comes by night into a
dwelling is likely to be a cutthroat intent on mayhem and does
deserve death in order to protect the innocent. There is a world
of difference between robbery and thievery. A robber is
threatening death or bodily harm, not merely thieving property.
Exodus (KJV translation)
21:14 But if a man come presumptuously upon his neighbour,
to slay him with guile; thou shalt take him from mine altar,
that he may die.
22:2 If a thief be found breaking up, and be smitten that
he die, there shall no blood be shed for him.
Exodus (TLB paraphrase/translation)
21:14 However, if a man deliberately attacks another, intending
to kill him, drag him even from my altar, and kill him.
22:2 If a thief is caught in the act of breaking into a house
and is killed, the one who killed him is not guilty.
ALSO:
"If someone comes to kill you, arise quickly and kill him."
The Talmud, Tractate Sanhedrin. 1994. The Schottenstein Edition.
New York: Mesorah Publications. Vol. 2, 72a.
PLUS:
"Someone ever tries to kill you, you try to kill 'em right back!"
--Malcom Reynolds to Saffron in "Our Mrs. Reynolds" epsiode #6 of
Firefly, aired 4 Oct 2002.
Last summer I worked on the (Catholic) Orthodox Study Bible
(converting Word files to tagged Quark for the typesetter) and
I noticed the relevant Commandment was translated you shall not
MURDER.
If gun control advocates quote the Bible at all, they quote the
commandmant "Thou shalt not kill." The Hebrew word translated
in the KJV 1610AD English translation as "kill" is a word
pronounced "rahd-sahk" and actually means murder or criminal
homicide: the Bible is full of sanctioned killing from warfare,
to ritual sacrifice, to Nimrod hunting, to self defense. What
makes murder a sin is the motivation, not the act of killing.
Killing in defense of innocent life is sanctioned by scripture:
the Talmud advises: "If someone comes to kill you, arise quickly
and kill him."
Note that this is defense of life.
A general reading of the biblical law is that a threat to property
only does not deserve death, but the thief should be bound by law
to make restitution. However, a thief who comes by night into a
dwelling is likely to be a cutthroat intent on mayhem and does
deserve death in order to protect the innocent. There is a world
of difference between robbery and thievery. A robber is
threatening death or bodily harm, not merely thieving property.
Exodus (KJV translation)
21:14 But if a man come presumptuously upon his neighbour,
to slay him with guile; thou shalt take him from mine altar,
that he may die.
22:2 If a thief be found breaking up, and be smitten that
he die, there shall no blood be shed for him.
Exodus (TLB paraphrase/translation)
21:14 However, if a man deliberately attacks another, intending
to kill him, drag him even from my altar, and kill him.
22:2 If a thief is caught in the act of breaking into a house
and is killed, the one who killed him is not guilty.
ALSO:
"If someone comes to kill you, arise quickly and kill him."
The Talmud, Tractate Sanhedrin. 1994. The Schottenstein Edition.
New York: Mesorah Publications. Vol. 2, 72a.
PLUS:
"Someone ever tries to kill you, you try to kill 'em right back!"
--Malcom Reynolds to Saffron in "Our Mrs. Reynolds" epsiode #6 of
Firefly, aired 4 Oct 2002.
That's interesting. I'm reform (don't hate me!
), and it seems like the complete opposite in my temple as well as other local reform and conservative temples.I've never really gotten to know any Orthodox jews because I've always been told that I would not be welcome amongst them. So, due to this, I never knew what their opinion on the subject is.
Do you find that this holds true elsewhere, or is it possibly a regional thing?
I have heard that the Jewish motto is "Never again!" but so many Jews seem to forget their history by supporting gun control. They want to trust the government to protect them despite the fact that their history includes the Holocaust, when their government tried to kill them.
Is THIS an acceptable post?
Is THIS an acceptable post?
I used to wonder that too until I ran into a lot of Jews who are not anti-gun. People who get into the mainstream media regardless of their cultural presuasion, tend to be liberoids (they are only called liberals now because Joe McCarthy overused the term "communist").
xsquidgator
Member
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2007
- Messages
- 835
I'm glad to have read the original post, I thought it made a lot of sense. I did not know that the original Jewish ghetto mindset of accepting violent crime without resistance had become part of the (European at least) Jewish culture, part of the self-worth and self-image. Kind of like not resisting made them morally better than their oppressors. Of course most of us here wouldn't feel that way, and we have had the benefit of observing the Holocaust and its effects from a long distance. I thought I learned something by reading it. Good post.
Well as a multiple gun owning Jew , I would say that the less Orthodox tend to be the less politically conservative, with the Reformed Jews being the most liberal in general. Of course there will be exceptions, but that has been my experience. I was raised in a Conservative home, and my parents were generally pretty much straight Democrat voters. Still drives me nuts! 
We have gone to one gun show in PA, and we were shocked at the amount of Nazi memoribilia. But the people in those booths had just as much of a right to be there, as we had to laugh at them. We try to get as many of our non-shooting friends involved as we can, and so far in the last 3 months, we have gotten 6 more people bitten by the bug. One of the best ways to protect our 2A rights, is to make people who were not vested/interested realize what they really stand to lose.
L'Chaim!
BTW Cosmoline, great use of the word "dreck"
, I would say that the less Orthodox tend to be the less politically conservative, with the Reformed Jews being the most liberal in general. Of course there will be exceptions, but that has been my experience. I was raised in a Conservative home, and my parents were generally pretty much straight Democrat voters. Still drives me nuts! We have gone to one gun show in PA, and we were shocked at the amount of Nazi memoribilia. But the people in those booths had just as much of a right to be there, as we had to laugh at them. We try to get as many of our non-shooting friends involved as we can, and so far in the last 3 months, we have gotten 6 more people bitten by the bug. One of the best ways to protect our 2A rights, is to make people who were not vested/interested realize what they really stand to lose. L'Chaim!
BTW Cosmoline, great use of the word "dreck"
FourTeeFive
Member
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked