cheap gun bashing

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Some of my classmates from school joined the Jr. Club my Dad ran, the one I mentioned up thread. I always knew based on the comments from my friends and their patents that shooting in a competitive smallbore rifle environment, even at the Jr. level, it was expensive. When a new kid started, my Dad told the parents just have him bring 50 cents dues and a box of 22 long rifle ammo, but experience taught him to specify the brand, unless told the parent they would buy the least expensive box of 22s available. I think a box of Remington Kleenbore or Western X-PERT or T-22 was much less than $1.50/box back then.

Some might think that it is wrong headed to approach a Jr club based on a competition model. Fair question, but my Dad never pressured a kid to buy a gun or shoot in matches. What he did do was teach the kids basic skills and routines that are common for that activity and let them go as far as they wanted. I don't think there was ever a time when there wasn't a kid that didn't have to borrow some piece of equipment when we went to a match. Also more than once a kid would join the club, my Dad would give them training on obtaining a correct and consistent sight picture and because of problems the kid was having my Dad would suggest to the parents an eye exam, next thing we know this kid was wearing glasses.

I was told that the reason we shot smallbore rifle was because it was less expensive than trap. That was what I was told. Anyway, after I got out of college and on my own I wanted to do some shooting and there wasn't a club close to home that was affordable. So I crafted a solution, there was a state shotgun training range nearby you could use free if you have a hunting license. So I got my license and bought a shotgun, a Remington 870 Express, I think it was about $189.00 Picked up a clay bird thrower and basically goofed around doing backyard trap.

My wife raised homing pigeons, still does and a friend of a friend bought a few birds from her to train dogs to hunt. He belonged to a Beagle club, members were mostly professional types, Doctors and Lawyers. They had a regulation trap range and invited me to shoot one evening.

So I get there and my humble 870 Express is bit out of place among the dedicated trap guns. But everyone was extremely friendly and I did better than most of them. I don't think though that this was a matter of them trying to buy success with expensive guns or me having the pure talent that comes from having inexpensive stuff. This was my first time shooting at a regulation trap range. I have always thought that I simply got lucky.

The few times I have shot trap since then I have out shot guys with expensive tackle and had my butt kicked by guys with expensive tackle. As far as being belittled by guys with high end gear there are jerks in every activity we can get involved in, I think in the firearms world there are actually less than average. I have had the privilege of getting a number of new shooters started in the shooting sports. If they ask and it's not too late I tell them lets go shooting don't buy anything until you have some experience. I have also helped teach NRA Basic Pistol classes. At every class there are always several students with handguns that are totally inappropriate for them, some expensive some not. In my opinion the newb, even those who's sole interest is in personal protection, should start with a rimfire pistol. It is extremely difficult to learn basic marksmanship skills with a .357 snubbie. Not impossible but difficult.

When I started shooting handguns I had a S&W 6906 that was a police trade in. I know that those guns have a huge following but when I started getting serious about shooting handguns, I couldn't get rid of it fast enough. I actually gave it away. They are for sure robust construction, reliable as they get and I paid way less than $300 for mine but the DA/SA trigger is horrible and it debatable as to the value of getting the action to work reasonably well. For carry it's fine but beyond that no thank you.

I know that there are Cinderella Stories and real life sequels to Sea Biscuit out there but nostalgia aside no one ever made it to the Olympics without some kind of dedicated training and preparation. It is said that Joe Garagiola passed his first try out for major league baseball with borrowed shoes, two sizes too big. True or not, still he worked very hard and played a lot of baseball prior to that day. Ringo Starr wasn't even officially a member of the Beatles and played a 2nd hand Drum set that cost$100 when they recorded "Love Me Do", but Ringo Starr knew how to play the drums and had been doing so for years.
 
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I have a c9 hipoint that has been through the wringer and back. It's always joked about when I bring it out at the range for new shooters to bang around with. In 2 weeks at my father's farm we went though 2 2k cases of steel case brown bear without a hitch. It of course had to be broken down and cleaned pretty good during it but it has always ran. I've ran it since then with a 124gr lee bullet over the max charge of tight tightgroup. The same round I run in all my 9mm rifles. This pistol has been at the range when buddies much higher dollar pistols have broken but kept chugging along. Some have purchased their own after spending time with mine. Sure its needed springs and a firing pin on occasion but with its round count its expected. Some pistols deservedly live up to the bad rap they are given. Any of the pot metal wonders in 9mm come to mind save for the hipoint. I'm definitely not a fan of condemnation of a fire arm only because it's cheaper for a person of less income to acquire. Would it be my first choice for someone looking on a budget? No...its better to save and buy something a little better over time. Would it be my first choice for someone that had to have something right now? Sure why not. They are reliable and made well enough. You cannot say that about all cheaply made pistols.
 
The Older I get, the more I see beauty in the Simple. Many folks will go through life and bragging about their beautiful, expensive stocks on rifles and shotguns, the finest quality firearms, the most expensive hunting jacket, and on and on. That is fine. Just more and more, I see the real beauty is something like a Single Shot shotgun, a Mossberg 88 or a simple revolver. Clean and honest. It is like the older I get, the more I move back to my Roots.
 
While I'm far from wealthy, I've been blessed with a successful business. When I started it years ago we had literally no extra income. I remember trying to scrape together $11 so I could buy business cards. If you've never been in the position of money being that tight, it may be difficult to understand. From what I've read, the consensus is that Hi Points are reliable. If someone's options are a Hi Point or nothing, I'd hate to see them go unprotected because of comments on a web site. I did pick up a Hi Point 40 carbine on a whim a few years back, as the price was too low to pass up. It's fun to shoot and has never had a malfunction.
 
Eddietruett said:
I love the looks when I go to a public range and see the looks on all the plastic gun toters when I pull out some of my old Smiths. When there is a group looking I never fail to pull out an old 1954 Colt Model 357 that might have 15% of its finish left. It is butt ugly but what a shooter. I see the young guys snickering and poking each other looking at my guns (some of which are worth 4 times what their plastic Glocks are worth) and then I like to see the look on their faces when I start punching out bullseyes especially with my old beater Colt.
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Shot a high-power match years ago. This old guy with an old bolt gun, the front sight was held in place with a hose clamp (I swear). Pretty much smoked us all. It was great watching him run that bolt in the rapids. Ya just don’t see that any more.

Cheep gun bashing. I try hard not to “bash” anyone’s gun. Where I draw the line is in recommending one. If you love your High Point, Kel Tec, or whatever, great. If you recommend one to a newbie as something they should use as their self defense weapon, shame on you.
 
rskent said:
Shot a high-power match years ago. This old guy with an old bolt gun, the front sight was held in place with a hose clamp (I swear). Pretty much smoked us all. It was great watching him run that bolt in the rapids. Ya just don’t see that any more.

Cheep gun bashing. I try hard not to “bash” anyone’s gun. Where I draw the line is in recommending one. If you love your High Point, Kel Tec, or whatever, great. If you recommend one to a newbie as something they should use as their self defense weapon, shame on you.
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You just bashed guns that some consider nice guns. I have known many owners that shoot often and enjoy the Keltec's and Highpoints. My brother has a number of guns and owns a Highpoint and says it has been very reliable. Of course he loves His CZ. So what gun would you recommend? I see you love the G19. Sorry, I would not own one. Nice gun, but does not fit my hand the way I like. If I was a newbie and bought that gun under your recommendation, I would be pissed especially after spending that much money. Worst if I was on a budget. I shoot a lot of pocket guns. But would never recommend anyone to get one that was a newbie. I do not recommend guns to friends. I take them to a range and bring along a number of 22,cals and start from there. Nothing wrong with a Keltec or Highpoint. Not my choice, but each to his own.
 
Jeb Stuart said:
You just bashed guns that some consider nice guns.
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I’m sorry, unfortunately trying is not succeeding.

Jeb Stuart said:
So what gun would you recommend? I see you love the G19. Sorry, I would not own one. Nice gun, but does not fit my hand the way I like. If I was a newbie and bought that gun under your recommendation, I would be pissed especially after spending that much money.
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If you were asking about a gun for your personal defense, I would try to steer you to a top tier manufacturer, any top tier manufacturer, like that Beretta you like so well.
 
Tallball said:
I'm not sure how many police turn-in and milsurp handguns I've bought online. Something like two dozen. One was a $200 revolver that needs a part I'm having trouble finding. All of the others have worked just fine. My police turn-ins typically have some holster wear, but examining the interior shows that most of them weren't shot much (maybe just for qualifying?). IMHO, day in and day out, the LE turn-ins and milsurps are the best deals out there. If I've bought 24, something like 15-20 of them were in the $150-$225 range. I think I paid $285 apiece for my Glock 22 and Sig P229 (both came with the box and extra magazines). As far as I can recall, those were my two most expensive specimens.
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" One was a $200 revolver that needs a part I'm having trouble finding. "
^^^If this is a S&W K, L, or N frame there's a good chance that I have the internal part..PM me if I can help..Bill.
 
Thanks Bill. Unfortunately it's a large-frame Astra revolver that needs a star extractor.
 
I have as much love for Hi Points as I do for people that think it's a good idea to place the power to judge what kinds of firearms us lowly subjects are allowed to have.

Cheap guns aren't my bag but neither is infringing on people's rights to defend themselves with the firearm they see fit. To each their own.
 
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Cheap guns now is a different subject than 10 years ago. Like new, or even factory refurbished, Glocks, Sigs, and M&P are easily found for 300 or less with night sights. I see no reason to pay 175-200 for a cheap pistol.
 
TomJ said:
While I'm far from wealthy, I've been blessed with a successful business. When I started it years ago we had literally no extra income. I remember trying to scrape together $11 so I could buy business cards. If you've never been in the position of money being that tight, it may be difficult to understand. From what I've read, the consensus is that Hi Points are reliable. If someone's options are a Hi Point or nothing, I'd hate to see them go unprotected because of comments on a web site. I did pick up a Hi Point 40 carbine on a whim a few years back, as the price was too low to pass up. It's fun to shoot and has never had a malfunction.
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Many times one can find a better ergonomically designed gun used for the price of a new Hi Point and that is where I try to steer people. Find a used Ruger P series, SR, M&P, Glock. Not because the Hi Points are junk but because they will likely enjoy shooting the others better and be more apt to want to practice. I'm glad there are Hi Points out there, sometimes one doesn't have time to find a used gun for their protection, they need cheap protection NOW, and in that case a trip to a gun store to pick up a $150 Hi Point and some ammo is the easy and most prudent choice.
 
Have followed this thread quite closely after my posting about my little Davis. When I first started shooting 100 Yd Black Powder rifle competition, I had to use a Thompson Center 50 cal Hawken. (All I could afford, most were using custom rifles) I was ridiculed and laughed at many times. One guy even laughed out loud and told me I "Shouldn't shoot that thing in serious competition". I ignored him and went on to out shoot him on a regular basis. I was usually in the money! Sad to say I quit after two seasons. The reason? quite simple, I didn't want to continue shooting with a bunch of snobs, despite that fact I out shot most of them An older gentleman who had coached me,was also laughed at for his rifles, they were "home made" and he and his wife always finished really well at the Nationals. In fact he and his wife won the husband and wife event several times. So if there is a moral to the story its quite simply this. "Some can shoot darn near anything well and some cant shoot worth a darn with the most expensive firearms". . So lets all think hard about the criticism or assistance we offer..
 
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exbrit49 said:
Have followed this thread quite closely after my posting about my little Davis. When I first started shooting 100 Yd Black Powder rifle competition, I had to use a Thompson Center 50 cal Hawken. (All I could afford, most were using custom rifles) I was ridiculed and laughed at many times. One guy even laughed out loud and told me I "Shouldn't shoot that thing in serious competition". I ignored him and went on to out shoot him on a regular basis. I was usually in the money! Sad to say I quit after two seasons. The reason? quite simple, I didn't want to continue shooting with a bunch of snobs, despite that fact I out shot most of them An older gentleman who had coached me,was also laughed at for his rifles, they were "home made" and he and his wife always finished really well at the Nationals. In fact he and his wife won the husband and wife event several times. So if there is a moral to the story its quite simply this. "Some can shoot darn near anything well and some cant shoot worth a darn with the most expensive firearms". . So lets all think hard about the criticism or assistance we offer..
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I could not agree with your assessment any more...
 
ar-newbie said:
I watched a video on cheap handguns, and the comments were just out of control.

The topic of high point pistols came up, and one person was adamant that they were so dangerous to the owners that some states have outright banned them for carry.

I just don't understand the mindset that it is their duty to spread falsehoods in their quest to bash a brand of weapon. When I looked up what he was referring to, it was really the Illinois melting point law from the 1960s which everyone knew was an attempt to restrict the rights of all people to defend themselves, removing inexpensive options from their gun stores in a bad effort to curb shootings in Chicago.

Hi point pistols were sold in Illinois gun stores right up until 2017, so there are plenty of them still in the state, they just can't sell them over the counter anymore.

I look at it this way, the second amendment applies to all law abiding citizens, and we should defend that at all cost. It's not my place to tell someone else how to spend their hard earned money.

While I don't personally want to own or carry a high point, I will certainly defend that right, and it's up to the individual to decide if that is for them or not.
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Have you got a link to that video? I'd like to watch it.
 
my personal experience with hi-points: i've had two... a 9mm and a 45. the 9 would never get through a magazine without at least one jam. the 45 would cycle fine with a VERY firm grip... very susceptible to limp wristing. both long since gone now.
last year a friend was bragging about his hi-point 9mm so i gave it a try... fired several rounds and then got a dead trigger. i instictively preceded to tap/rack but upon tapping the mag it fired (with my finger indexed, away from the trigger) i had that happen to me three times in two mags... dead trigger ; tap the mag and the gun fires.
after two mags i gave it back to my friend and affirmed to him that yes it was every bit as accurate as he claimed but he should be VERY careful with it, and probably should never loan it to anyone again.
 
I have some inexpensive guns and I have some guns that cost more. Most of the people on this board know how to work the system and find that $250-300 police turn-in, milsurp, or lightly-used privately-owned handgun. Just my random opinion, but I would expect that many people who buy on the inexpensive end go to the local big box gun store and pay full price for the Hi-Point or KelTec.

Great to give them advice on how to find a better gun for the same money, but that often entails use of internet auction sites or hard bargaining at a gun show. We all know how to do that. Some people in need of an inexpensive firearm for self defense may not have that knowledge, or the time to pursue the hunt. Think of someone with limited income and an immediate need.

I make an effort to never question another person's choice of firearm, vehicle, whiskey, or spouse. I'm even careful about giving advice on those topics if asked. Easy to give offense, hard to fix it if I do.
 
Coyote3855 said:
I have some inexpensive guns and I have some guns that cost more. Most of the people on this board know how to work the system and find that $250-300 police turn-in, milsurp, or lightly-used privately-owned handgun. Just my random opinion, but I would expect that many people who buy on the inexpensive end go to the local big box gun store and pay full price for the Hi-Point or KelTec.

Great to give them advice on how to find a better gun for the same money, but that often entails use of internet auction sites or hard bargaining at a gun show. We all know how to do that. Some people in need of an inexpensive firearm for self defense may not have that knowledge, or the time to pursue the hunt. Think of someone with limited income and an immediate need.

I make an effort to never question another person's choice of firearm, vehicle, whiskey, or spouse. I'm even careful about giving advice on those topics if asked. Easy to give offense, hard to fix it if I do.
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I honestly do not believe the brand name or price matters as much as whether the company will stand behind their product and has good QC, the firearm is reliable, and if the person behind the trigger can hit what they're aiming at.... For home defense purposes, if a Hi Point fits a shooters hands and they are efficient with it, why should it matter what company name is etched on the slide?
 
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