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What kind of guns do the bad guys carry?

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by GunnyUSMC, Feb 20, 2019.

  1. GunnyUSMC

    GunnyUSMC Member

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    Been busy, but here's the next update.

    308 Auto:
    (1) Glock 42, Found
    (1) Taurus PT738, Felon
    (1) Hi-Point CF380, Homicide

    9mm:
    (3) S&W SD9VE, Drugs
    (1) S&W SD9, Ill. Uae
    (1) S&W SD9, Drugs
    (1) S&W SD9VE, Found
    (1) S&W SD9VE, Domestic
    (2) S&W M&P Shield, Found
    (1) Glock 19, Stolen
    (1) Glock 19 G4, Ill. Discharge
    (1) Glock 17 G4, Agg, Assault
    (1) Glock 17 G5, Stloen
    (1) Glock 19X, Agg. Assault
    (1) Ruger LC9s, Ill. Use
    (1) Ruger, LC9s, Safe Keeping
    (1) Taurus G2C, Robbery
    (1) Taurus G2C, Found
    (1) Springfield XDs9, DWI
    (1) FEG P9R, Suicide
    (1) SCCY CPX-1, Stolen/Drugs
    (1) Beretta NANO, Found
    (1) Jimenez Arms JA9, Burglary
    (1) Hi-Point C9, Ill. Carry
    (1) Hi-Point C9, DWI

    40 S&W:
    (1) S&W SD40VE, Robbery
    (1) S&W SD40VE, Stolen/Robbery
    (1) S&W SD40VE, Stolen
    (1) Glock 23 G4, Ill. Use
    (1) Glock 23 G4, Stolen/Felon
    (1) Taurus PT140 PRO, Agg. Assault/Poss. of a Handgun By a JUV.
    (1) Astra A-75, Felon

    45 Auto:
    (1) S&W M&P M2.0, Drugs

    7.62X39
    (1) Zestava PAPM92PV, Robbery
     
  2. total recoil

    total recoil Member

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    Gunny, do these Perps ever carry knives? Aren't you glad you don't have to test knives too? :)
     
  3. shoobe01

    shoobe01 Member

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    Dare I ask, what's "illegal use" of a firearm that is not illegal discharge, and not associated with something else like armed robbery, in your state?
     
  4. GunnyUSMC

    GunnyUSMC Member

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    Yes, I am glad that I don't have to test the knives. I would hate to have to hear the screams of the ones I tested them on.;)

     Illegal use of weapons or dangerous instrumentalities is the intentional or criminally negligent discharging of any firearm, or the throwing, placing, or other use of any article, liquid, or substance, where it is foreseeable that it may result in death or great bodily harm to a human being.
     
  5. FlSwampRat

    FlSwampRat Member

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    These were just found and turned in by someone, perhaps, walking along a road?

    You, sir, have a sick sense of humor. I like that about folks.
     
  6. total recoil

    total recoil Member

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    Gunny has a remarkable sense of humor for a guy that is exposed to so much violence in his everyday job. Of course I , thinking of all the scientific tests he has to do with firearms, was referring to his time consuming labor, that might be necessary with working on knives.
    FLSwamp Rat, you too are exhibiting some welcome humor here. Somehow I picture your avatar (with Panama hat) as smiling under those shades! :) Keep up the good banter!
     
  7. FlSwampRat

    FlSwampRat Member

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    My father was a LEO in a big city in NJ before being retired on a medical. That was back in the days when he carried an Official Police 38 made by Colt, which could explain the warm spot in my heart for the prancing pony guns. I inherited that six shooter upon his passing and sadly some orc broke into my castle and stole it when I was at work one sad day.
    Funny story, that gun was always loaded and in my father's underwear drawer from which he'd remove it any time I asked to see it, show me how to unload it, check to see if it was clear, etc. In those days we lived in an apartment and once upon a time my mom somehow pushed a bullet out of the belt loop and it hit the floor. She thought she shot the guy downstairs even though the round was laying on the floor unfired.
    My avatar picture was shot on holiday in Key West and although it's old and a bit out of date, it's one of my favorite pictures of me.
    As I often say, I have to have a sense of humor, I've seen me at the beach.
     
  8. Zoogster

    Zoogster Member

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    A very long thread to basically say that bad guys carry whatever guns are typically concealable. Or exactly what most law abiding citizens would choose as a carry firearm, with some overlap into larger guns one can still manage to carry concealed.

    With the shift in production and demographics of our society no longer making quality firearms something one must save a long time to purchase even if they are in the lower classes. As the cost of something like a firearm is dwarfed by many other common financial concerns and the percent of income a quality firearm represents a much small portion of someones budget.
    Additionally laws putting out of business or causing the ceasing of production of the lower quality or budget guns when they were preferred by criminals or the neighbors they stole them from in low income areas. So the only firearms generally on the market are of better quality and reliability as a result of those anti-gun efforts, and criminals will not have their guns jamming and failing to operate as used to be common, or in puny calibers as also used to be common before such laws.
    So now criminals typically use exactly what most other people use, as the budget of criminals and their neighbors is similar to everyone else and they have even more incentive to acquire or spend a higher portion of their income on them than most other people, and what is available to acquire is of decent quality
    As a result keeping track of what they are using is little different than taking a snap shot of what handguns are common in society.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2019
  9. Sovblocgunfan

    Sovblocgunfan Member

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    What is the “safe keeping”? Something along the lines of “aw man, that ain’t mine! Dude tol me just to hold it for him”?
     
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  10. NIGHTLORD40K

    NIGHTLORD40K Member

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    I disagree. When you look at the qualitative difference between the Raven, Jennings, and RG pistols which dominated the criminal armories in the 70s and 80s and the guns confiscated today, we see a huge increase in the capacity, effectiveness, and overall quality of modern criminal arms.

    True, the "Saturday Night Specials" of those days were cheap and popular guns with law-abiding citizens as well, but their market share and distribution never approached the ubiquitness of the SWVEs and Glocks we see used in crimes today.

    IMO, the takeaway here is that even the low-level street scumbags of today are much better armed than their predecessors from even a decade ago and we need to adjust our gear and tactics accordingly.
     
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  11. GunnyUSMC

    GunnyUSMC Member

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    Safe keeping can be for many different reasons that are most likely non crime related. Like when there’s a car crash and the drive is transported to the hospital. If he has a gun in the car it I’d dropped into evidence for safe keeping. The owner can pick it up when he is able to.
     
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  12. Sovblocgunfan

    Sovblocgunfan Member

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    Ah. Thanks for that.
     
  13. Zoogster

    Zoogster Member

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    Which is exactly what I said. They are using what the mainstream demographic that wants to carry firearms uses, primarily those which are concealable in common service weapon calibers. When before the legislation to ban Saturday night Specials and other inexpensive guns came about in a misguided attempt to target the guns most popular with criminals they used to use lesser caliber and less reliable weapons quite often. The attempt to identify and restrict the guns used in crime in the 1960s-1990s succeeded and now the minimum level of quality and capability of typical firearms is greater with them not on the market.
    Additionally the concealed carry movement has dramatically increased the number of firearms in the dimensions desirable for carry. Criminals want exactly what a concealed carry law abiding citizen wants, a small capable firearm easy to make disappear in their regular attire. So now that concealed carry is a huge portion of the market, perhaps the dominant market for civilian handguns now, a much higher percent of the handguns on the market are exactly what a criminal wants too.
    The cost of living in many places used to also be so low that people didnt have to make that much to exist, and quality tools like mid level firearms were a higher percent of what many low income people made. Today the cost of living even in an urban hellhole where most crime happens is so high that the person needs to make several times what a quality firearm costs every month just to pay their bills.
    People are less prone to care about the minor cost differences between the worst firearms on the market and mid level firearms when choosing a tool for either defense or criminal use.

    Which is why tracking what they are using is almost meaningless, it is exactly what non criminals are using. Essentially just a snapshot of carry firearms, with some overlap into larger handguns too as criminals probably don't get exactly what they want when stealing, robbing, and burglarizing nets them additional firearms.
    A couple decades ago there was a clear distinction between the guns most used by criminals and those used by the general public, today that distinction is gone and they are using what the law abiding citizens all around them are also using. So you learn nothing by tracking what they are using other than it is probably exactly what was the most popular carry models some years prior.
    ATF says time to crime is about 9-10 years on average in 2017-2018. That means the guns you see most commonly are probably exactly what was most popular with law abiding citizens 9-10 years ago. With some newer and and older models tossed in, with older ones probably more likely to get siezed over time and so probably more newer models tossed in than old.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2019
  14. FlSwampRat

    FlSwampRat Member

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    They're carrying what the mainstream demographic owns is because that's who they're stealing them from for the most part. It's not like they're going to BadGuys Gunshop to buy Lorcins, Ravens, etc.

    There never were guns officially called Saturday Night Specials, and, in an attempt identify such they went with sizes, height and length, which actually outlawed the Walther PPK until they added that little plastic shoe to the bottom of the magazine to make it big enough.
    The big push in '68 came after Robert Kennedy was assassinated, shot by a .22 Long Rifle Iver Johnson Cadet 55-A revolver, although gun control was being looked at after JFK's assassination with a gun bought mail order. MLK and RFK were the big motivators for the bill to get passed.
    Price was never a named defining factor, although that's what they were aiming to outlaw. Even so, there are plenty of inexpensive brand new handguns on the market. According to an online inflation calculator $50 is 1985 dollars is equivalent to $120 today. In 1985 we sold new .25 ACP Ravens and Lorcins for $50. Today you can buy a new Jimenez, made in USA, for a bit more than $120 in .380 ACP. Just goes to show that the government efforts to control things often backfires. Those guns were popular with poorer folk who could afford to buy some protection, albeit pretty dicey protection, for themselves and their homes.

    In 15 years of selling guns from 1984 through 1999 we sold a lot of those cheap brand new .25's. The only gun I remember having the police come in and investigate the sale after the weapon had been used in a murder was a 12 gauge bolt action shotgun, oddly enough.
    I think Gunny's reporting is interesting and I thank him for taking the time to do it.
     
  15. Zoogster

    Zoogster Member

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    Totally different topics, the big push towards gun control was during a time yes of some assassinations, but also a lot of protests and political unrest in general. The push towards legislation I think came from a desire to create prohibited persons and control who could and could not have guns by tracking them and licensing people more inclined to follow the new restrictions to keep the struggling law enforcement and government forces on top, and the assassinations of prominent officials created a method to do it with public support because generally the public considered the arms of the populace as their right, so government has to come from the direction of taking their rights away for their own benefit during times when emotionally the population will buy into it.
    Suddenly all those black militants and protestors, anti-war movement protestors, student riots at universities, labor movement strikers, etc were people that when they clashed with police were committing an assault on law enforcement and felony disenfranchised for life who were then legally disarmed under the law so in future clashes only the government side should legally have guns and as a result were assured victory if most of the population played by the rules.
    Those that fought back with any violence even unarmed when fire hosed, beaten with clubs, gased, and the police dogs were sent on them would become felons.
    During the Cold War when the Soviets would gladly have stirred up trouble and armed trouble makers in the USA, and most of those protestors were left leaning, as the youngest demographic is in most decades.
    The GCA was about keeping control, and the NFA was even more surely a method to keep control after the Bonus Army showed a real threat to the Capitol, and were left leaning and Socialist during the Great Depression when they would get a good amount of support from the population in their views and government was quite aware of the changes in Russia in the prior decade and what the outcome of that struggle had been. It wasn't a short lived revolt that would die off, no it actually had taken over and Communism was feared by those in power around the world as it was still sinking in back in that time before TV and media and news travelled slower.
    Most big legislation of the past had little to do with keeping regular citizens safe from other regular citizens, and is about keeping top down tiered control, with the common rabble on the bottom. Which is also what in modern times the governments come together in the UN and agree on in their small arms restrictions and methods of intentionally removing most arms from the masses so only the governments are armed with anything meaningful.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2019
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  16. NIGHTLORD40K

    NIGHTLORD40K Member

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    Ya ya, the powerful do as they please and the weak suffer what they must. We get it.

    Well, if you find it so meaningless why are you still reading and commenting on it?

    Me too.
     
  17. Styx

    Styx Member

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    Bad guys carry any guns they can get their hands on whether through black market, theft, etc... It's not like they're going down to their LGS to hand pick the one they want. It's not like they're bypassing and leaving the affordable guns in the homes and cars they're breaking into in our of more expensive guns. Not sure what tracking what they use would prove it how it would be if any use...
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2019
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  18. rust collector
    • Contributing Member

    rust collector Contributing Member

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    It appears to me that many of the guns are hand picked and purchased by straw buyers or purchased through illicit channels. I don't think it's a matter of any guns they can get their hands on. Perps are obtaining better guns and self defense is going to require more training, better weapons, and better awareness than in the past.
     
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  19. Styx

    Styx Member

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    I know of one case involving a co-worker's sister. A guy she knows gave her money to buy 10 firearms that he planned on selling. She just recently was caught, but haven't been charged yet. Not sure which brand of handguns he had her purchase, but my point is that the end buyer on the street is still buying what's offered... I believe most straw buys and firearms in general that are obtained by criminals aren't the result of them going down to the LGS and hand-picking which one they want.

    I'd also like to add that here in the Hampton Roads area if VA in just the past 2 years we had 3 LGS that were robbed.. I'll see if I can find the news articles online so that I can post a link... In each of these cases, the peeps used a vehicle to ram through the door in the middle of the night.
     
  20. WestKentucky

    WestKentucky Member

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    the shop I lived near before I moved just had this exact scenario happen. Stolen vehicle from the Nashville area I believe was driven up into Ky and the rammed a side access door. The building was purpose built as a firearms dealer, complete with basement pistol range. It has reinforced walls, windows, and doors at least. Perhaps roof as well, I would t be surprised at there being added security structure in the roof or attic area. I know that they did NOT breach the walls and gain access to the weapons. Had they picked any of the local pawn shops they would have been more successful.
     
  21. Styx

    Styx Member

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    They were robbed twice...

    At work, so this is all I could find, but even if you Google gun shop robberies, you'll come across dozens of recent instances where a gun shop was robbed, and the crooks got away with several firearms... Like I said, I know I heard of a few cases in my area alone. Most gun shops are putting up those barrier post in front of their stores now in reaction to smash and grabs. The media is focused on private sales and "gun show loopholes" when they aren't the problem.
     
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  22. Styx

    Styx Member

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    Yes, it's very common and IMHO is how most criminals obtain firearms along with other forms of theft, robbery, and to a lesser extent, first person strawman sales.
     
  23. WestKentucky

    WestKentucky Member

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    I once lost a pistol while hunting. It was a Keltec p11, and I reported it as missing. What the sheriffs office told me over the phone was that if the gun was found and reported as found then they would contact me, and that there was a surprisingly good chance that a found weapon would be reported because people get nervous about possessing a weapon potentially used in a crime. They said that quite often the guns are left laying and are actually retrieved by law enforcement upon arrival, or in some cases the finder picks up the weapon and takes possession of it if it is in an area where kids can get to it, but they receive a decent number of calls for found weapons each year.
     
  24. GunnyUSMC

    GunnyUSMC Member

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    This is true. Just look at how many guns i have listed as found.
    Zoogster, You'er just a little off on your info. Just look at the guns in the listing. One of the most popular guns on the streets is Glock. There are a few reasons for this. They are very popular with Law Enforcement. This means that they work and the bad guys want guns that work. High capacity magazines are very popular with the bad guys, and high capacity mags for Glocks are very easy to find.
    About 50% of the Glocks we recover have the extended mags with them.
    Most street thugs are not some poor guy trying to make ends meet. He's a thug because he can make more money selling drugs or stealing then he can if he got a regular job, and he doesn't have to put in a 40 hour week.
    Now some do carry whatever they can get their hands on, but there's a large black market for guns on the streets. A few years ago a guy was arrested by one of our officers. He was stopped for a traffic violation. There were drugs in plain view in his vehicle. A search, subject to arrest, a stolen gun was found in the vehicle. ATF got involved because the guy was on their radar. He was what they called a Gun Runner. He traveled to from state to state buying guns on the black market and would transport them to places like Chicago where he could sell the gun for a hefty profit.

    It also depends on where you are, on the food chain, when it comes to criminals. We have plenty of small gangs in our city. Even the small gangs are very well armed. This is because they are always beefing with one and other. In these gangs they have their trigger man, or Hit man. He's most often the with the heavy firepower.
    Here's a pic of three guns taken from one of our local small gangs.
    The identities of the Officers have been changed for their protection. :)
    IMG_1581.jpg

    The main reason I started this topic was to give members an insight to what guns are being picked up off the streets.
    And if you wonder what happens to all these guns, some are returned to the owners, some are remain in evidence for ever, but most are destroyed.
     
  25. rdnktrkr

    rdnktrkr Member

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    As much as I don't like the idea destruction of firearms I guess it helps keep firearm manufacturers in business.
    What about auctioning them to FFLs? Wouldn't that help offset expenses of catching bad guys?
     
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