What is your "Lemon Gun/Guns" ?
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wlewisiii
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Lorcin .22 - inaccurate even at pocket pistol ranges & was a magazine fed single shot. I could never get it to auto load no matter what ammo was used. Got $40 for it a gun show from a dealer.
Taurus PT145 Millennium Pro (2nd Generation)
Are we seeing a pattern develop here boyz & gurlz?
Knew I was taking a chance, but there was just so much to like 'bout it, and at the time research seemed to indicate Taurus semi-auto quality was/had improved (now looks like it was only an improvement "window"?). Originally planned to have in my CCW rotation, but after my first trip to the range, I had no idea where the rounds were going!
Was on target and ringing plates/hitting the bullseye quickly, accurately with my 1991 A1 Compact Colt, HK, SIG, XD, various S&W (including Sigma), couple of Walthers etc, but kept getting closer, closer, closer with my PT145 and never saw 'em hit paper!? Got dark, so I figured I'd check it out next time to the range when I had more time, but I've never fired it again, and after it's performance, it definitely ain't a CCW!
Guess I'll try to figure out what's going on somewhere down the road and then decide what to do with it?
Are we seeing a pattern develop here boyz & gurlz?
Knew I was taking a chance, but there was just so much to like 'bout it, and at the time research seemed to indicate Taurus semi-auto quality was/had improved (now looks like it was only an improvement "window"?). Originally planned to have in my CCW rotation, but after my first trip to the range, I had no idea where the rounds were going!
Was on target and ringing plates/hitting the bullseye quickly, accurately with my 1991 A1 Compact Colt, HK, SIG, XD, various S&W (including Sigma), couple of Walthers etc, but kept getting closer, closer, closer with my PT145 and never saw 'em hit paper!? Got dark, so I figured I'd check it out next time to the range when I had more time, but I've never fired it again, and after it's performance, it definitely ain't a CCW!
Guess I'll try to figure out what's going on somewhere down the road and then decide what to do with it?
beeenbag
Member
cobra ent. .32
It has never jammed after fluff and buff, but key holes at 10 ft. Ah for $75 what do you expect.
It has never jammed after fluff and buff, but key holes at 10 ft. Ah for $75 what do you expect.
Gryffydd
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Only one so far: Walther P22.
Justin Holder
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Remington 597 22LR.
Couldn't shoot through a whole magazine without some kind of failure.
I should have bought a Ruger.
Couldn't shoot through a whole magazine without some kind of failure.
I should have bought a Ruger.
CelticArmory
Member
I just traded a Llama IX-B to a guy for a H&R .22. The Llama when I got it had some minor issues (or so I thought). After repairing the more obvious issues (sear, disconnector, thumb safety) the firearm functioned great and shot well. Then I discovered much to my dismay that the feed ramps had been carved up so bad that near 1/4" of the case wall was exposed. Since both barrel and frame ramps were ruined, it was going to become an experiment piece. I had a customer with an older Llama MiniMax that needed an extractor. Well, the one from the IX-B fit but he liked it so much (especially the blue job I did) that he wanted it and was happy to trade the rifle for it. As it was the IX-B was only worth a couple hundred as a parts gun so the trade was worth it for both of us. I have had a total of 4 1911 pistols in my life and all 4 have been trouble. The Llama, a RIA compact 1911 that someone messed with the feed ramps on (I got it fixed, sort of), an Essex frame that was manufactured wrong (too long between mag latch and frame top), and long ago I had a Colt Commander that the barrel was a bit loose in when locked up and I couldn't hit the broad side of a barn at 15'. I still have the RIA and the Essex (which I'm still working on to make right).
Justin Holder
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NEF Handi-rifle in 22 hornet.
Was fine until the third box of ammo then it stopped extracting fired cases.
Traded for a marlin 22 mag. and haven't looked back. Although I do miss the caliber.
Was fine until the third box of ammo then it stopped extracting fired cases.
Traded for a marlin 22 mag. and haven't looked back. Although I do miss the caliber.
bindingposts
Member
Masterpiece arms M-11 in 9mm. This gun was fun to shoot and it was accurate but loading the magazines sucked bigtime. It was heavy and jammed alot. I almost shot myself with it once trying to unjam it in full battery so I sold it.
Glock 23. Reliable and ran ammo without a problem, but I was lucky to hit the target. The sights suck, and the recoil became unbearable. Sold it and bought a RIA 1911-A2
Glock 23. Reliable and ran ammo without a problem, but I was lucky to hit the target. The sights suck, and the recoil became unbearable. Sold it and bought a RIA 1911-A2
TomTerrific
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Walther PPK/S
New, it had trouble with light strikes. Using the slingshot technique, I got around this problem and fired maybe 100 rounds with the occasional double feed.
Then the range session from hell. It wouldn't feed. The decocking lever floated in the wind. It would occasionally fire two shots with one trigger pull. The extractor fell off.
It's back at Walther/Smith & Wesson now. When I get it back, I will never have any confidence in it given past performance.
New, it had trouble with light strikes. Using the slingshot technique, I got around this problem and fired maybe 100 rounds with the occasional double feed.
Then the range session from hell. It wouldn't feed. The decocking lever floated in the wind. It would occasionally fire two shots with one trigger pull. The extractor fell off.
It's back at Walther/Smith & Wesson now. When I get it back, I will never have any confidence in it given past performance.
mesinge2
Member
I got a Cobra Patriot .45 as a cheap gun to use on a boat. I figured it was like a hi point which I have heard good things about but half the size. My thinking was that if it fell over then as least it was cheap. Plus it had a good review from a major gun rag.
Anyways, I took it shooting the day I bought it. I had a jam every round. Well, more of a lock-up. The trigger would not reset after a shot was fired. Everyshot. I had to pull the slide back 1/8th of an inch everytime to reset the trigger. I went right back to the store I purchased it from, and got rid of it.
Anyways, I took it shooting the day I bought it. I had a jam every round. Well, more of a lock-up. The trigger would not reset after a shot was fired. Everyshot. I had to pull the slide back 1/8th of an inch everytime to reset the trigger. I went right back to the store I purchased it from, and got rid of it.
wally
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I've a fair number that didn't work right out of the box, but I'd not call them lemons as I was able to fix them without a lot of expense or difficulty -- mostly magazine issues when you get right down to it.
But I'd say I do have a lemon now -- Chiappa 1911-22. Its stovepipe city, 2 in 60 rounds is a good day and the trigger reset is horrible making it shoot nothing like the 1911 its supposed to be an analog of. Got and seems to continue to get good reviews, but mine is a lemon.
Another fellow here has sent his back, if they fix his, I'll risk the money on sending mine back (they make you pay shipping for warranty work
) as at this point I don't want to be throwing good money after bad.
But I'd say I do have a lemon now -- Chiappa 1911-22. Its stovepipe city, 2 in 60 rounds is a good day and the trigger reset is horrible making it shoot nothing like the 1911 its supposed to be an analog of. Got and seems to continue to get good reviews, but mine is a lemon.
Another fellow here has sent his back, if they fix his, I'll risk the money on sending mine back (they make you pay shipping for warranty work
) as at this point I don't want to be throwing good money after bad.
pharmer
Member
I had an FEG R9 in 9mm. It was a pos that the only part interchangeable with the Browning HP was the mag. 30# trigger pull and the insides were peening after 100 rds. Traded it for a SW 10 and never looked back. Joe
del4
Member
Remington 597 in 22lr. It had all kinds of malfunctions, mostly fte's. I replaced the extractor with an aftermarket one (VQ?) now it's the best .22lr rifle I have ever owned. Started out as the worst.
Kimber stainless target II. Nice trigger, nice fit and finish, accurate but it was never reliable. I can't remember how it malfunctioned but I could not get through a box of 50 w/o several malfs. I got it to work with a chip mccormick mag and then I sold it before it didn't work again
Suprised more kimbers didn't make the list. They were sucking pretty bad there for a while.
Suprised to see the 22/45's. I bought one a couple of weeks ago and I love it! It's the only 22 that has worked perfectly so far.
Kimber stainless target II. Nice trigger, nice fit and finish, accurate but it was never reliable. I can't remember how it malfunctioned but I could not get through a box of 50 w/o several malfs. I got it to work with a chip mccormick mag and then I sold it before it didn't work again
Suprised more kimbers didn't make the list. They were sucking pretty bad there for a while.Suprised to see the 22/45's. I bought one a couple of weeks ago and I love it! It's the only 22 that has worked perfectly so far.
JTHunter
Member
Boy! After reading these posts, I have to consider myself very fortunate in that I haven't had a new gun that gave me any problems.
The only guns that have given me problems are a .38 (not a Special!) of my grandfather's that is about 90 yrs old. Needless to say, it's pretty well shot out. Also an old Colt 32 ACP (about 80) that is also shot out. Oh well, they still function at close range.
The only guns that have given me problems are a .38 (not a Special!) of my grandfather's that is about 90 yrs old. Needless to say, it's pretty well shot out. Also an old Colt 32 ACP (about 80) that is also shot out. Oh well, they still function at close range.
GunnyHighway
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- Jul 24, 2010
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My lemon gun is a CVA buckhorn precussion sidelock that i baught at wally for 54$ in 2004 shot 4-5 rounds and the thing started to hangfire (pulled trigger hammer fell 1-2 seconds later) took it apart cleaned the lock nothing improved so it has sat in the gun cabinet 6 years now
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Radagast
Member
Beretta Tomcat: Very heavy trigger pull, firing pin broke in less than 300 rounds, grip screws became loose. A dissapointment as my Beretta 92s have have been more reliable than my Glocks.
Para Ordnance P16-40: Swinging link peened, barrel leaded excessively, failure to extract, failure to feed, stove pipe jam, front sight fell off. I've also seen Para's in 9mm, 38 super and .45 that have had problems, including rear sights working loose, 10 round mags that failed to feed (gun worked fine with STI mags), cracked frame, and general fail to feed/eject. The only ones I know that worked fine had all of the small parts replaced with aftermarket items. My experiences are all over 5 years old, but once burned twice shy. I would never recommend a Para Ordnance product to any shooter who actually shoots, which is a pity as they sure look fine and fit the hand well.
On the plus side, I've had three people ask me to trouble shoot their Walther P22s, which have a habit of being lemons. When I fed them with CCI standard velocity 40 grain ammo they all ran perfectly. So the P22 may just be ammo sensitive and not the lemon it's reputation suggests.
Para Ordnance P16-40: Swinging link peened, barrel leaded excessively, failure to extract, failure to feed, stove pipe jam, front sight fell off. I've also seen Para's in 9mm, 38 super and .45 that have had problems, including rear sights working loose, 10 round mags that failed to feed (gun worked fine with STI mags), cracked frame, and general fail to feed/eject. The only ones I know that worked fine had all of the small parts replaced with aftermarket items. My experiences are all over 5 years old, but once burned twice shy. I would never recommend a Para Ordnance product to any shooter who actually shoots, which is a pity as they sure look fine and fit the hand well.
On the plus side, I've had three people ask me to trouble shoot their Walther P22s, which have a habit of being lemons. When I fed them with CCI standard velocity 40 grain ammo they all ran perfectly. So the P22 may just be ammo sensitive and not the lemon it's reputation suggests.
Radagast
Member
wildbillz:
That isn't an uncommon problem. I'm ruthlessly culling my safe at the moment, with the funds to go towards guns I know I will shoot. This is third such cull in the last decade as I quickly relapse into "Ooooh! Bright! Shiny!" retard mode when I see a new gun. Luckily I work for a dealer part time and get to test fire the second hand guns as a safety check, so it doesn't cost quite as much these days.
Unfortunately the local S&W distributor knows a sucker when he sees one, so if I drop a gun in for service he always hands me the latest release to check out and fall in love with.
That isn't an uncommon problem. I'm ruthlessly culling my safe at the moment, with the funds to go towards guns I know I will shoot. This is third such cull in the last decade as I quickly relapse into "Ooooh! Bright! Shiny!" retard mode when I see a new gun. Luckily I work for a dealer part time and get to test fire the second hand guns as a safety check, so it doesn't cost quite as much these days.
Unfortunately the local S&W distributor knows a sucker when he sees one, so if I drop a gun in for service he always hands me the latest release to check out and fall in love with.
Myles
Member
CZ-75 was my "Lemon" and it soured me on CZs forever. Clunky, inaccurate, constant FTF, FTE in every magazine. I could not dump it fast enough.
What is funny is that in my collection I have 3 of the most maligned firearms on the internet: Taurus (granted, it is an early production PT92), Raven .25, and a very early production Intratec Tec-9. Very reliable and surprisingly accurate in the case of the latter 2.
I exclude the surprise factor from the Taurus, as it has over 25k rounds through it at the moment, and has always run flawlessly. I have replaced springs at each 10k mark, that's it.
Granted, the Tec-9 can have function issues if you limp-wrist, grip the magazine, or ever attempt to dry fire it (you will snap the firing pin); mine is incredibly accurate, and well made. Later models that I have handled were produced poorly, and fit and finish was nonexistent after the 1980s. Most especially after they began releasing Tec-9M, Tec-22, and later DC-9 series.
The Raven has always been accurate - I used to plink and sink empty 12 gauge hulls floating by in a stream with it. It's just a horribly manufactured weapon, without any thought or care during production. It fits in an ankle holster very comfortably and is easy to CC at any time. Is the .25ACP inadequate? Most likely, but I won't volunteer to be shot with one. Better a mouse gun than no gun.
I'm sure to catch hell from CZ-lovers, but it's the same way I feel about Taurus haters. You got a bad gun, or never owned one and only read about other people's issues. <shrug>
What is funny is that in my collection I have 3 of the most maligned firearms on the internet: Taurus (granted, it is an early production PT92), Raven .25, and a very early production Intratec Tec-9. Very reliable and surprisingly accurate in the case of the latter 2.
I exclude the surprise factor from the Taurus, as it has over 25k rounds through it at the moment, and has always run flawlessly. I have replaced springs at each 10k mark, that's it.
Granted, the Tec-9 can have function issues if you limp-wrist, grip the magazine, or ever attempt to dry fire it (you will snap the firing pin); mine is incredibly accurate, and well made. Later models that I have handled were produced poorly, and fit and finish was nonexistent after the 1980s. Most especially after they began releasing Tec-9M, Tec-22, and later DC-9 series.
The Raven has always been accurate - I used to plink and sink empty 12 gauge hulls floating by in a stream with it. It's just a horribly manufactured weapon, without any thought or care during production. It fits in an ankle holster very comfortably and is easy to CC at any time. Is the .25ACP inadequate? Most likely, but I won't volunteer to be shot with one. Better a mouse gun than no gun.
I'm sure to catch hell from CZ-lovers, but it's the same way I feel about Taurus haters. You got a bad gun, or never owned one and only read about other people's issues. <shrug>
Radagast
Member
JTHunter: If the .38 is a .38 S&W, potentially it has a barrel bored for a .361 bullet. Modern .33 to.357 diameter ammo may be undersized. See if you can get some oversized projectiles and work up a handload. It may improve your groups.
JTHunter
Member
Radagast - the stamp on the side of the barrel just in front of the cylinder is stamped "Colt D.A. 38". Over 98% of the bluing is gone, it has an exposed ejector rod under the barrel and a "sight groove" running the length of the topstrap. The gun might even be closer to 100 yrs old. One gunsmith theorized it was probably a cop's old duty gun.
Radagast
Member
JThunter:
It sounds like you have a New Army & Navy Model chambered in .38 long colt, not .38 special or .38 S&W. These used a hollow based bullet (think of a .22 lr bullet that has been pulled from its case). The skirt or base should have expanded to fill the rifling.
As the .38 long colt was nominally .374 in diameter modern .355 to .357 projectiles will be undersized.
http://www.proofhouse.com/colt/1892.htm has a list of serial numbers by year. If it's pre 1896 then it's definitely a black powder gun, in fact I would be inclined to treat any gun from that period as being for black powder, not smokeless, which has a higher pressure.
FWIW, I am not a Colt expert by any means, but if you post a new thread in the revolver forum with some pics I am sure you will get a lot of informed replies. If you had a S&W I could probably give you more detail.
It sounds like you have a New Army & Navy Model chambered in .38 long colt, not .38 special or .38 S&W. These used a hollow based bullet (think of a .22 lr bullet that has been pulled from its case). The skirt or base should have expanded to fill the rifling.
As the .38 long colt was nominally .374 in diameter modern .355 to .357 projectiles will be undersized.
http://www.proofhouse.com/colt/1892.htm has a list of serial numbers by year. If it's pre 1896 then it's definitely a black powder gun, in fact I would be inclined to treat any gun from that period as being for black powder, not smokeless, which has a higher pressure.
FWIW, I am not a Colt expert by any means, but if you post a new thread in the revolver forum with some pics I am sure you will get a lot of informed replies. If you had a S&W I could probably give you more detail.
I'm surprised I'm only the fourth complaint about S&W Sigmas. I was able to fix the gritty trigger by smoothing out the sear, still aside from that I wasn't able to get over the constant fte and ftf…
Just traded it in on a Mosin and couldn't be happier.
Just traded it in on a Mosin and couldn't be happier.
jpwilly
Member
Llama MiniMax 45 rear sight kept coming loose and had feeding issues. Staked the sight and polished up the rough parts. Works great now but worst new gun I've ever purchased.
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