M1 Carbine w/Softpoints vs. AR with your Favorite Ammo

[peacebutready]

For home defense, property defense, etc within 100 yards which setup has more stopping/knockdown power (without getting into a debate about what that term exactly means).

The M1 Carbine loaded with your favorite softpoint, without mentioning the name of it. The AR loaded with your favorite tactical load/soft-point/hollow-point, again without mentioning the name of it.

 

[Archangel14]

Oh man.....both are terribly deadly. People hunt deer with .357, which are evidently effective. The .30 carbine is more powerful than the .357. A 62 grain .223 is deadly.

The .22 LR is a great deterrent at that range!

 

[mavracer]

While my M1 carbine is plenty accurate, my AR is positively surgical out to 100 so that'd be my determining factor. Power wise IMHO it's a coin toss.

 

[M1key]

Eyeballs at 100 yards. Which one will do that...

M

 

[MICHAEL T]

At a 100 yds My Ky long rifle put you in a hurt . But I also have M-1

 

[MICHAEL T]

At a 100 yds My Ky long rifle put you in a hurt . But I also have M-1 for faster reload

 

[Snowdog]

Both have their advantages. I find the M1 Carbine "handier" and plenty accurate within 100 yards and indoors isn't as "blasty" as my AR-15. Though the .30 carbine with modern loads such as (yeah, I'm going to mention them) Gold Dot JSP or Hornady FTX is very deadly, I'd have to give the edge to the 5.56 when it comes to "stopping power".

If it's something I plan to use indoors, I'd likely go with the M1 Carbine. Otherwise, I'd go with the AR. That just my personal preference.

I posted a similar question a couple years ago. Some pictures I included in that post I'll include again here because pictures are fun.

My Kahr M1 Carbine and PSA AR15


My chosen loads for each


A closer look at the projectiles themselves. The .30 carbine is nearly twice is heavy as the .223, the .223 is nearly 1000 fps faster than the .30 carbine.

 

[ClemY]

I think within 100 yds. there isn't too much to choose between the M-1 carbine with softpoints and optics, and an AR with similar setup. Beyond 100 yds., I would expect the AR to be better.

I like both, within their limitations.

 

[Kame B.]

I'm well with in 100 yards property defense, any further than 50 yards and I'll be shooting the neighbors house. I would go with the M1 carbine, preferably with the folding stock. It's shorter, lighter, more concealable, just a all around handy little high powered pistol

 

[CoalTrain49]

The 30 carbine is basically a pistol cartridge which was designed to replace the 1911 A1 pistol.

5.56 is a rifle cartridge. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure this one out.

If you want better than 3 moa at 100 yards you best be using a rifle cartridge.

If that isn't a consideration it doesn't much matter.

I use a 30 carbine but an AR is probably more versatile.

 

[Ironicaintit]

Id have to go with the M1 carbine, just because I prefer that platform. But, ive never had to use either in a serious manner so I dont know, really.
Knockdown power is still up for debate.

 

[rondog]

FWIW - an M1 carbine with three mags of soft points, flashlight and red dot sight lives next to my headboard. The AR lives in the safe.

 

[Just Us]

Well, since you didn't specify caliber of AR....

The AR platform is much more versatile. With configurations from .22lr to .50 beowulf, and barrel lengths 4" to 24", pistol/rifle, etc. it's no contest.

My personal choice would be .300 aac blackout, sbr'd, and suppressed.

 

[Dr.Rob]

Both will do the job. I think the AR gets the edge in accuracy and flexibility when mounting optics, lights etc.

Side by side plain Jane iron sights, still think the AR edges out the Carbine.

 

[Deaf Smith]

Prefer the M1 Carbine for HD cause a) low bore axis means easy to do pinpoint shooting and b) low blast that won't disorient oneself.

Power is no issue inside 100 yards.

Deaf

 

[Nuclear]

The AR is more accurate at distance, but heavier and louder than the M1 carbine. Using fmj the AR is more effective, but a soft point in the M1 is pretty much equal to a hollow point AR round. I'd say for general use inside of 100 yards I'd go with the M1.

 

[Tirod]

The AR isn't limited to 5.56 and therefore can have a significant edge, beyond what 5.56 already has.

Since we are talking in defense, higher mag capacity also weighs in.

Choice of optics as the AR can be much more easily equipped.

Ammo - 5.56 is cheaper and more available, which gives the shooter more opportunity to be a better shot.

The AR is a long term tested and proven weapon, with a much larger support base in accessories, gear, and options. The Carbine was a short term predecessor which was taken out of service after 20 years. M16's in service that long were armory upgraded, and there are weapons as issued in the early 60's still in service. Unlike Carbines.

I wouldn't think twice about sending the AR into a day long drizzle in the field, the Carbine would need extensive maintenance on return to prevent serious damage. The last Carbines sold by the DCM weren't in real good condition, old AR's pop up constantly in world news quite functional and in good condition. It's simply the difference between phosphate treated steel and anodized aluminum - the latter is used in storefronts over the last 40 years and a walk down Main Street shows them it in good shape.

Because of that, the Carbine needs to be stored in a humidity controlled environment - but the AR can ride in the trunk. And since you have to have it to use it, so goes the decision.

 

[Sunray]

There's no such thing as stopping/knockdown power with any cartridge, but a 110 grain HP out of a Carbine makes a grapefruit size hole in soft tissue. Mind you, so will a .223 varmint bullet. Pick the rifle you like best.
"...The .30 Carbine is basically a pistol cartridge which was designed to..." It was the Carbine itself that was designed to replace pistols. Not the cartridge. Easier to train an inexperienced shooter(the idea of a nation of riflemen is a myth. Most people never saw a real firearm before Basic Training.) to use a rifle well enough to defend himself than it is a pistol. The cartridge is a carbine cartridge, not a pistol cartridge.

 

[guns3738]

Dose ar-10 count or not?

 

[Salmoneye]

M1 Carbine

 

[mljdeckard]

Actual, literal, side-by-side effectiveness of the cartridge? I think at inside the home distances, there is so little difference as to be negligible.

You can do a lot more to customize an AR.

My grandfather's Inland is under my wife's side of the bed with two magazines of SP on the butt.

 

[amprecon]

I'd take a .30 caliber over a .22 caliber centerfire any day

 

[amprecon]

I wouldn't think twice about sending the AR into a day long drizzle in the field, the Carbine would need extensive maintenance on return to prevent serious damage.

Because of that, the Carbine needs to be stored in a humidity controlled environment - but the AR can ride in the trunk. And since you have to have it to use it, so goes the decision.

I don't know if I buy that, M1 Carbines are tough as all beat h*ll, the conditions they were used in from 1940's through Vietnam showed them to be utterly durable and resistant in the harshest of conditions, great little carbines.

 

[CoalTrain49]

...The .30 Carbine is basically a pistol cartridge which was designed to..." It was the Carbine itself that was designed to replace pistols. Not the cartridge. Easier to train an inexperienced shooter(the idea of a nation of riflemen is a myth. Most people never saw a real firearm before Basic Training.) to use a rifle well enough to defend himself than it is a pistol. The cartridge is a carbine cartridge, not a pistol cartridge.

Let's try not to confuse the new shooters here. I have never seen a reloading manual have a section for carbine cartridges. Cartridges are either classed as rifle or handgun (pistol). Some pistol cartridges are used in carbines but that doesn't make them rifle cartridges. Because the 30 Carbine was designed as a carbine cartridge during WW2 it doesn't make it a rifle cartridge by modern definition. If the cartridge were designed today it would be a pistol cartridge to be used in a pistol cartridge carbine (PCC) which is exactly what an M1 carbine is as it was designed as defensive weapon to replace a pistol. The Army already had a very good battle rifle.

Here is some criteria to help you figure out if it's a rifle cartridge or a pistol cartridge by modern definition. Most modern rifle cartridges have a working pressure above 40,000 psi and have a bottle neck case. Most modern pistol cartridges have a working pressure below 40,000 psi and have a straight wall case. There are a few exceptions for both but as a general rule this is the criteria.

The 30 carbine resembles a lengthened semi-auto pistol cartridge more than a rifle cartridge. It has a straight wall case and a working pressure of 40,000 psi. or lower. Most factory ammo is loaded below 40,000 psi. That was a military spec that is no longer used in the industry.

The newest Hornady manual calls it a pistol cartridge (load data in both sections) but you call it whatever you want. Just don't call it a "carbine cartridge" because "carbine" is the description of a firearm, not a cartridge.

 

[briansmithwins]

Modern rifle with high velocity JHPs or a hot .357 class carbine that's a minimum of 70 years old*?

And the modern rifle can easily be set up with modern 1x optic?

And the modern rifle has dead reliable magazines available?

And the modern rifle is cheaper?

Sorry, it's not much of a contest.

BSW

*USGI produced M1 carbines, not modern copies that are/were produced with cost saving measures that impact reliability or durability.