My little story. You tell me what you think.

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justatexasboy

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Sep 27, 2006
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wylie texas
Hello all. Ive been quietly following the threads for a while and decided to share this experience with you guys. It is a classic example of being somewhat prepared, yet making some very poor decisions while still half asleep.


My youngest son was only two weeks old. Needless to say I was sleep deprived and luckily for all of us I was keeping very odd hours. One Sunday night I was up with the baby in the living room at about 4:15 AM. My son had finally nodded off to sleep when my dogs alerted me to something going on near my backyard.

My dogs at the time were about a year and a half old . And I had already started some advanced training with them. Given the current times and abundant litigation we have I chose to train my dogs to hold thier position and block access to the house without biting. Even at a year and a half old old they could be very menacing when they want to be.

Mistake #1. I should have trusted my dogs judgement and taken the situation more seriously. They had already been trained not to bark at every little thing.

I put my sleeping son on the sofa and went to the patio door to investigate (without a weapon). Upon reaching the patio door I saw that my dogs were blocking the walk from the gate to the patio door and they were in full alert towards the gate. Just as I opened the patio door I saw someone open the gate to my back yard and try to enter.

Mistake #2 I should have woken my wife up at that moment to have a second line of defense.

Instead I went into the back yard and stood behind my dogs. They were pretty well trained but I didnt want to risk them attacking someone who had stumbled into the wrong backyard. The man who had opened the gate was now trying to enter and he seemed oblivious to the two growling pit bulls blocking his path. He looked completely out of it. Im mean he was totally spaced out! I told the guy to get the F--- out of my yard. He pointed to my 7 year old daughters upstairs window and told me he had to get his kids off of my roof.:eek:

At this point I stepped forward so that my dogs would re-position themselves between the guy and myself at a more intimidating distance to him. He still seemed totally oblivious to the snarling dogs! I told him to get out at once or I would call the dogs on him. Strangley when I said this I really think it was the first time he even noticed the dogs.:eek:

He backed out of the gate and I slammed it behind him and pinned it to prevent any further entry attempts. As I headed back into the house to call 911 I noticed my dogs were still at full alert and tracking him as he walked around the fence towards the front of my home.:eek:

Mistake #3 and #4

Again I should have woken my wife up. I should have brought one of the dogs into the house and left the other in the backyard.

I got the baby, went into the bedroom,laid the baby in bed with my wife and got my 12ga pump, I then headed for the telephone. About the time I got the remote phone off of its cradle I heard the guy beating or kicking at my front door!:fire:

I stood near the door as he kicked it and started talking to the 911 operator. I told her what was going on and to tell the officers that I was the one with the shotgun. About that time one of the hinges on the front door started coming loose. I had had enough! I opened the front door, stepped back, and leveled the shotgun on the intruders torso.

The shotgun did what my two pitbulls were unable to do. For the first time in this entire encounter the intruder seemed to have some lights turn on in his head. He backed up and then ran across the street to a mall parking lot. I stood in the entrance way to my home and watched as the cops caught him. It took four very large cops to get this guy down. He was totally insane!

Afterwards, I found out that the guy had a 6" utility type knife in his back pocket. He had been working on a local sho sealing the floors and had been overcome by the fumes. Luckily, I didnt have to shoot him, as it seems he was a family guy without a criminal record who had a really bad night.


Ive pointed out the mistakes I feel I made. Barring my not having a pin on the back gate to begin with that night. I guess the kids left it off while playing that day.

I hope this serves as a reminder that even people who are somewhat prepared think a bit more slowly in the wee hours of the night, and under intense pressure.

Did I make any other mistakes that I have missed?
 
Let's not start the pitbull BS again - they're dogs, not demons. He didn't ask for approval or disapproval on his choice of pets, just a critique of his tactics.
Let's keep it to that, hmmmm?

Biker
 
saddlebum,

Great! My first post and Im starting a flame thread.:D Its okay, I get that alot. Crazy thing, I cant remember ever not having a pit at my side, my dad always had one or two too, his father had them also. We have never had any type of incident in three generations. I guess it depends on how they are raised and who they are raised by. Ive found they are great situational judges and really loyal to my family.

Heck, if it wasnt for them that guy very well could have gotten to my kids while I dozed with the baby.;)

But honestly I really just wanted peoples input on how I handled things that night. I replay it often in my head.
 
Welcome to THR.

Wow, that's quite a story. Did this just happen? What city do you live in? Is this activity typical in your neighborhood?

John
 
You seem to have identified the mistakes, but you muddled through to the right thing. Nobody was hurt. Your dogs deserve a pound of hamburger each and to be told that they are Good Dogs.

Your point about sleep and effectiveness is well taken. We have plenty of low-light drills, but not many Little Nemo in Slumberland drills. Lack of sleep or waking up from a sound sleep have profound effects that many don't take into account.

I'm glad the man was subdued without being injured. A guy whose brain has been insulted by toxic chemicals isn't responsible for his actions. I hope he gets a respirator or better ventilation on his next job.
 
JShirley,

Actually it happened about two years ago. I live in a really nice suburb or Dallas called Richardson, this kinda thing dosnt happen often there.


tellner, Upon replaying the situation mentaly all this time I keep wondering if I should have opened the front door or not.

The reason I did was because I had become acutely aware of what an advantage an attacker actually had. I never realized how much of a lagtime the human brain really has when it is forced to respond to a situation. An attacker has already made all the decisions and is hence quite a bit quicker.

Things worked out but I wonder if opening that door was the correct thing to do or not.
 
I'm afraid that at my house, there's a good chance that he would have gotten shot. I've had a home invasion (which thankfully turned out OK) but I'm not going through that feeling of helplessness again. I've have shouted a warning that 1) the police are on their way, 2) I'm armed, and 3) if that door opens, you're getting shot. I wouldn't open the door, but if it comes open...there are gonna be issues.
 
Disclaimer: I have no tactical training and am essentially a gun gamer.

Having said that, I've thought about such scenarios and have decided for myself not to open the door. I don't want to be that close to the bad guy, I don't want to expose myself to a "Surprise! He's got a gun!" situation, especially when I've got one hand outstretched to open the door, and I figure having shot someone who broke down my door will look better in court than having opened up my door and then shot the guy behind it.

Yes, I'm paranoid about legal consequences, but I live in California. I can imagine some shyster telling the court that I opened the door -- an obvious invitation to come on in and have a chat -- and then shot my "guest" in cold blood.
 
I would not have opened the door.

You stayed on the phone with the 911 operator and told her that you were armed. That was very good. Good boy... give your self a treat.

Just a general question: What type of front door did you have, and how long, or about how many kicks before it gave in? Im only asking because that might be some info that could help some of us reinforce our defenses.

Thanks
 
just my opinion

I think the ONLY mistake you made was not waking your wife. But, your can only see that in retrospect as not every person that comes to your front gate is a psycho. That is a good lesson for me as well, as I would have probably let her sleep. Thanks for the story, and I am happy all turned out well.
 
yes, you have two pit blls around young children. flame away

Erm. So?

I know somebody who raises Akitas and has small children. His dogs could physically eat his kids if they really wanted to, but shock horror: They've been raised properly, and they're the most friendly, playfull dogs you've ever met. His kids routinely ride his big female around like a horse and the dog loves it. To the dog, the kids are just funny looking puppies. Part of the family.

It's not the breed, it's the owners.
 
Actually from a legal standpoint, you weaken your case by opening the door. side from that, the conclussion is a happy one so that means you did everything right. No one scenerio is the same as the next, and many times we are more on "auto-pilot" allowing our more perceptive sub-concious guide us. I think thats is what happened with you, don't go kicking yourself and don't go opening doors, the last thing you want to deal with is a civil lawsuit where you shot a person on your door stoop.
 
Things worked out but I wonder if opening that door was the correct thing to do or not.

I'm going to say that opening the door was the right thing to do. First, it resulted in the best of all possible outcomes. Perp got caught by the police, and nobody (not even the perp) got hurt. Second, opening the door shifts the element of surprise to your favor. Imagine you are trying to kick in somebody's door in a rage. What is the LAST thing you expect them to do? That's right, open the door. Makes the attacker stop for just a moment to work things out. You took advantage of that moment of uncertainty to point your shotgun at him, which seems to have taken the fight right out of him without your having to fire a shot.

If you had let him bust the door down, your chances of having to shoot him would have gone way up. Any time you take control of a confrontation without having to shoot, you've done a good thing.
 
Security is like an onion

In that it is many layered, or so they say. I can't see any benefit in removing one of the layers by opening the door.

Also, you absolutely must get your wife engaged in the incident early, and have prepared code phrases or agreed procedures in place.

Finally, I would not have gone into the back yard, unarmed. I probably would not have gone at all without first lighting it up with a flashlight.

But I do understand the confusion of night time when you are a new parent.
 
Dogs = ?

I give ya an 85: . Can't really advise, I wasn't there. What ever you did must have been OK. You don't have a killing to live with, and everybody is safe. This time. :uhoh:
 
Welcome...and what a story. I agree with the leave the door closed statements; as previously stated, why intentionally remove one layer of security?

Also, do you have a central alarm and was / is pressing a panic button an option?

Ours makes enough noise to wake the dead!

Take Care,
DFW1911
 
Actually from a legal standpoint, you weaken your case by opening the door.
I agree. Aside from my earlier "shyster" scenario, I can also imagine an argument along the lines of "Well, being as you opened the door, you obviously were not afraid for your life, therefore you had no business shooting".

Nonsense, of course, but that sort of thinking seems to run rampant through our legal system.
 
Look, if the dogs were trained well enough not to go after somebody who is in "their" yard because "the big guy hasn't said go yet", I don't care what the breed is, those are DAMNED GOOD DOGS. Major points for getting them to that point.

Mistakes were not being armed going to the back yard, and then not waking wifey. But you knew that.

The door is a tough one. If you wait for him to bash it apart, then you no longer have a front door available. And that's a major loss, in part because you don't know how many MORE baddies are around. I'm not going to criticize you there.

You did enough good things right to save this guy's life and prevent dog bite damage to him. Which in this case is excellent because he wasn't really a "goblin" per se. Under the circumstances he owes you major thanks.

Tough situation.

The last time I heard of somebody going nutso like that from fumes, the guy was a meth cook and went nuts with a gun. That's on him. Your guy's situation wasn't at all like that.

Food for thought guys: that rampaging nutcase you run into might not be "somebody worth shooting on general principles" after all. If it's at all possible not to kill, don't kill. I know that if "justatexasboy" had shot and killed in this situation and learned of the cause, justified or not it would have haunted him forever.
 
Amen Jim. Maybe not everything was done perfectly, but enough was done right that he had an excellent outcome. And he avoided killing someone who was temporarily not in his right mind. That would have been the source of even more grief and soul-searching at three in the morning.
 
PADLOCK the gate!

I have fence all around my house 6' on the sides & back - 3.5' in the front and even that short front gate has a padlock.

I figure if anyone climbs the fence or gate they mean harm to me & my family.

I tell the neighbors its so no idiot lets my dogs loose.
 
Great points guys! Thank you.

Funny thing. In retrospect I opened the door because I wanted ( or needed) to get control of the situation. The situation that occured in the backyard really had me doubting my reaction times. Ive read where others have been pretty surprised by the whole processing time a brain takes in a situation. It really opened my eyes.

In retrospect I think I would probably have left the door closed.

Someone asked about the door in question. It was crap! Yet another mistake I will never make again. The frame suffered a great deal of damage, and the top hinge had already separated at the frame. The door was deadbolted but the deadbolt is only as good as the frame. I have recently purchased a new home and the first thing I did was order a decorative steel door and will be having the frame reinforced to boot.

I thank God all the time that it ended the way it did and that I didnt have to shoot him. But after going through that incident any doubts I ever had about actually being able to pull the trigger are gone. I have been second guessing my actions on that night for two years now. Because my actions (not waking the wife who has a defense gun too) could have cost my family thier lifes. I can only imagine what goes on in the mind of someone that is forced to shoot.
 
I have been second guessing my actions on that night for two years now.

You debriefed yourself, and your wife I assume. Move on now. The mistakes that where made where made, no point in dwelling on them for longer than it will teach you the lesson it needs to.
 
At 4 am if I am up and in my living room either a .357 or a 45 acp is with me .

I think you were lucky he started out in the back yard where the dogs were and not kicking in the front door or coming through a window .

Shotguns are great in a situation like yours , but if it had been one that simply exploded in your face rather than slowly developing you wouldn't have made it to the bedroom to get the gun and leave your son with the wife .

These days home invasions are far to common every where in the country , when at home I want a loaded gun within grabbing distance especially from about 9 pm to 6 am when many violent crimes occur .
 
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