Police Department Backs Down After Exceeding Authority on Gun Carry

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I think it was Charles Heller, not Gunsmith. Unless that's the alias Gunsmith goes by IRL. :D

I wonder how this would have come off if he wasn't a radio personality who had a tape recorder running the whole time?
 
Title 18, etc

Gentlemen -

Charles here. Anyone who wants a title 18 card can send me a stamped self addressed envelope to:

Charles Heller
C/O KJLL Radio
4230 N. Campbell
Suite 238
Tucson, Az. 85730

As to whether or not I went looking for trouble: no. About a year and a half previous to the encounter the Tucson Police Department declared that its official policy was to arrest anyone found in the park with a gun. This is NOT within the law.

Seeing as how it is the job of the engaged citizen to control his government, I had decided that when it was appropriate, I would peaceably challenge this mis-aplication of the law. My opportunity came last year. I did it there and then for many reasons, the largest of which was the level of witnesses.

In addition to a U.S. Congressman, there was a county supervisor, a city councilman, the state majority whip, and the news director and GM of the station. There was little chance of either LEO misconduct or me going over the line. Under those circumstances, what I did was reasonable. I chose my forum for dispute very carefully.

As a follow up, Sgt Jim Stoutmeyer contacted me the day after the encounter. He thanked me for my demeanor and told me that he had now written a training policy that all TPD officers would now have to watch. He said that he learned a lot from the encounter and was glad that it happened.

I have subsequently talked to several Tucson Officers who have seen this "in service" training and have commented that they found it informative.
 
I concur...

Good job sir!!! I commend you to stand up for WHAT IS CORRECT AND JUST!!

We, at one time or another, must understand that the law and JUSTICE are not one in the same. I applaud you for standing up the one rare occasion were the law and JUSTICE collided...with a positive outcome.


MaceWindu
 
Charles .... welcome - glad you signed up. :)

I think what may have been missed by some and which is now clearer from your comments ..... is that you did indeed ''bring things to a head'' let's say ... and in a way and place which maximized exposure - with useful witnesses too.

I can see why you did this ... and it would seem that altogether it was an immense success. More power yet again to your elbow (and your pen too!).
 
CharlesHeller

You, sir, have some cajones.

To open carry in the presence of Congressmen and other politicians took some guts. It seems like even when legal, most of them don't want any weapons anywhere near them. Afraid of an assassination?

Of course, if I were a typical politician, I'd perhaps be a little nervous too. :what:
 
Gentlemen -

I don't think it takes cajones. It is just the courage we all should have to do what is right. I don't care if a Congressman is scared of armed men. Maybe, just maybe, if he is around enough of them he will adjust.

Remember also that I am a known entity in my community. I have been at activism for many years and ALWAYS have a sane and rational rhetoric. I NEVER joke about harming people. EVER. I end every show with a statement "be vigorous, not violent, vigilant, not vituperative," and attempt to live that way.

As a shameless plug, the last 8 or 9 episodes of my program are archived at www.libertywatchradio.com and at the bottom of each page is an archive link. If you want to support my work, listen to the archive. If you like what you hear, e-mail the general manager [email protected] and tell him that you appreciate his airing my show.

Thanks,
 
I e-mailed Charles Heller yesterday and told him about this thread. He told me he sent the Title 18 card to one of you.

I'm sure he's quite pleased that he's still being inspirational. ;)

A little background on that... after a long battle with the City of Tucson over what they could and couldn't do to we gunnies who carried in parks (we had a state preemption law which they decided to ignore), the boys at Brassroots.org decided to *arrange* for an arrest of FACT (Firearms Action Committe) President, Ken Rineer. Ken waited for the police to arrive. He stepped on park property and the cops dutifully wrote him a ticket.

The Magistrate through it out as unconstitutional, but the City appealed and got a favorable ruling from the Arizona Court of Appeals which said that Ken's rights were not violated because he "could have simply walked around the park." That takes juevos, don't it? The Supreme Court declined to hear the case.

The uproar caused by this series of events caused Arizona gunnies and favorable legislators to draft even clearer (two-sentence) preemption language and pass it, sending it to the Governor's desk...the day before Columbine. She vetoed it.

It was passed a bastardized version (not two sentences, but several paragraphs) and she later signed it. This new law gave cities the ability to ban carry without a CCW permit but not with a CCW permit. So, traditional open carry without a permit *could* be banned from parks if the city so desired.

Of course, the preemption law said a city could only do what was specifically allowed by ARS 13-3108, which made no mention that CCW had to be concealed. To no avail, Tucson said they would arrest anyone who open carried even if they had a CCW permit.

We told them they were wrong. They said, "If you try it we will arrest you." So for years, nobody down in Tucson wanted to call their bluff.

It took Charles Heller, with a 5,000 watt radio station to make the difference.

The result? The leftist City of Tucson has been put in their place and shown to be made up of lying bureaucrats.

Strike a chord for freedom. It's that kind of activism, at a minimum, that is required to win freedom back, an inch at a time.

I have zero patience for people who armchair quarterback somebody who decides to activate. Weenies are a dime a dozen. Activists are rare.

--edited to add-- oh, I see Charles has signed up... nevermind. :D

Rick
 
Yay!

Wow! I have saved the original article from keepandbeararms.com in my favorites for over a year and posted it in light of the NH and WA open carry threads. I like open carry,especially when it is really hot out,it just feels more comfortable.
I am very gratfull for people like Charles Heller and folks like AZRickD that are keeping AZ free. I hope to mave there some day.

I am sick and tired of being made to move to the back of the bus!
 
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Don't "move to the back of the bus." Make the servant bus of government obey its own laws. Carry the law with you and a title 18 warning card. NICELY inform the officers that they would be endangering their careers to enforce what is not the law under the authority of the government's uniform.

Go a step further: find a friendly legislator to introduce a pro open carry resolution in the legislature. It does not have to be a law. Get a copy of it and carry it. Present it RESPECTFULLY to the officers.

Have an "open carry day." Invite a number of peacable open carriers to an event, have a table with donuts or hot dogs, and put up a law enforcement courtesy sign. Get them on your side as I did with Sgt. Stoutmeyer and you will have less hassles. It will also make life easier on the cops, and that is a good thing, as they have a tough enough job as it is.
 
More activism in Arizona coming

We are already planning two events here in Phoenix.

One, spearheaded by Alan Korwin and Gary C involve the 10th anniversary of Arizona's concealed carry (added to Arizona's traditional open carry without a permit). This will happen in September or October (just before the election) and will tie in to the AW ban sunset. The message will be, "We've had CCW permits for ten years... time to go add Alaska/NewHampshire Carry to the mix."

Sometime in the next several weeks we will be targetting the Arizona Restaurant Association which lobbied against the Restaurant Carry Bill. These guys were caught in so many lies it was pathetic.

We will likely picket Nixon's Restaurant in the Camelback Esplanade because the owner was quoted as saying "...now my employees and I can sleep nights..." as he misrepresented the law. The owner is on the Board of Directors of the Association and should have known better, and likely did.

Nixon's is a hangout for politicos (mostly lefties, I'm guessing).

Rick
 
Speaking not as a lawyer but as a programmer (bear with me, it's relevant), the wording is vague. It could either be:

{Whoever, under color of any law, statute, ordinance, regulation, or custom, willfully subjects any person in any State, Territory, Commonwealth, Possession, or District to the deprivation of any rights, privileges, or immunities secured or protected by the Constitution or laws of the United States,}
or
{to different punishments, pains, or penalties, on account of such person being an alien, or by reason of his color, or race}

...or it could be:

{Whoever, under color of any law, statute, ordinance, regulation, or custom, willfully subjects any person in any State, Territory, Commonwealth, Possession, or District to the deprivation of any rights, privileges, or immunities secured or protected by the Constitution or laws of the United States, or to different punishments, pains, or penalties,}
...
{on account of such person being an alien, or by reason of his color, or race}

Now in a program language, as in mathematics, there are rules of precedence for interpreting something like this, e.g., evaluate the multiplication first and then the addition (example: 2*3+4 = {2x3} + 4 and not 2 x {3+4}). Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but no such rules exist for interpreting legislatorese, so one person might read this Title 18 as only applying to discrimination and another might see is otherwise. In short, it's a question of which "or" is the most important. Which is one reason we have busy judges -- and juries -- I suppose.

- 0
 
Excellent story! I feel extremely motivated by your activism. My activism so far has been mostly writing letters and getting libraries to remove Arming America from circulation. There really is not much to do in NJ to challenge the status quo I am afraid. N.J.S. 2C:39-2b establishes a guilty until proven innocent clause with regard to firearm possession. You can comply exactly with the letter of the law and still have your weapon confiscated from you. Hard to tell the servants that you are the master when the system establishes you not as a citizen with rights but a subject.
 
Charles, I commend you on your courage to show the government that they are there to do our bidding, since we live in a democracy, not the other way around. Congratulations in helping your local city officials open their eyes to the laws they wrote.


I like your idea of an Open-Carry day. Utah has no law against open carry also. They're law is that one can not be in the chamber, or if you have a CCW it does not matter if it is chambered or not. It would be interesting to have an Open-Carry day here in Salt Lake. Maybe you could come up a speaker...:D
 
Dev_Null -

You said "...Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but no such rules exist for interpreting legislatorese, so one person might read this Title 18 as only applying to discrimination and another might see is otherwise. In short, it's a question of which "or" is the most important. Which is one reason we have busy judges -- and juries -- I suppose."

My answer:
Please note the "or" after "states." I think it obtains.

"...Whoever, under color of any law, statute, ordinance, regulation, or custom, willfully subjects any person in any State, Territory, Commonwealth, Possession, or District to the deprivation of any rights, privileges, or immunities secured or protected by the Constitution or laws of the United States, or to different punishments, pains, or penalties, on account of such person being an alien,..."

Steballo

I know what it is to live under a rigged system - I am from Chicago. That is why I moved to Arizona. The trick is to keep your state from going statist before it happens. That's what we are trying to do here.

Part of it involves not just fighting defensive actions. You have to try, sometimes no matter how futile it may seem, to fight offensive actions.
Put up a bill that makes them have to fight a defensive action. Even if it fails, it opens up a second front.

Also find ways around the system legally. Open a business that would give you cause for a "may issue" permit. Figure out who gets CCW's in your state and become one of whatever that is, if you can afford to do it. Had I stayed in Chicago I would have eventually figured out a PI license and gone that route, as that is the ONLY way to get CCW in Illinois. There is NO
provision at all for the private citizen to get the king's permission.

Charles
 
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