WA State AFL issue, FBI "fumbling the ball"

[MD_Willington]

I know many of you have seen my topic in activism, some support it, some do not, anyway, here lies the main hurdle:

We are unable to issue alien firearms licenses at this time. The Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) has told law enforcement agencies it is against federal law to use federal databases for background checks if the law enforcement agencies share the results with a non-criminal justice agency such as the Department of Licensing. This means law enforcement agencies cannot perform the background checks required by state law for issuing an alien firearms license. Without these background checks, we cannot complete the application process or issue alien firearms licenses. For more information, please call us at (360) 664-6616 or email us at [email protected].

In a round about way, here comes the solution thanks to Rep. Ross Hunter:

Bill HB 2955 became effective on June 12, 2008. This bill authorizes the WA DOL direct access to federal criminal backgrounds records. In a nutshell this law certifies the WA DOL as a "Criminal Justice Agency".

BUT, there is the new problem:

I talked to the staff as well, and I agree, the bill did not resolve the
problem, though it should have. The FBI is being a pain on this and we
may have to do something else. I have the legislative staff working on a
possible solution. I'm copying my assistant so she can track your
information as we can get back to you. It will take us a while to figure
out a solution, as we have to make the FBI reasonably happy with the
result so that we get the data.

So here is the only thing I can come up with at the moment:

Washington State residents that support this...

Please contact your local Representative, Representative Ross Hunter & Cathy McMorris Rogers and ask them to contact the FBI regarding the issue as at this time the FBI is stalling on allowing the WA State DOL access to the background check.


Thank you for your time.
MD

 

[Gray Peterson]

The recent Heller court ruling may make AFL's unconstitutional. Check your PM's.

 

[user3214]

I agree with the post above.

Also given the fact they don’t issue AFLs to anyone – this is a prohibition to own any firearm and I think this is clearly unconstitutional given the new Supreme Court Ruling.

 

[NewbieShooter]

If thats the case then does that mean that no aliens in the country can acquire firearms ? if yes then what will happen to people in other states who are aliens and don't require any AFL ? e.g. CA.

 

[MD_Willington]

If the issue is not resolved before 2010, well I do not mind waiting until my citizenship, the wait, while an inconvenience, is well worth it!

 

[MD_Willington]

My local guy contacted me, he is going to contact Cathy McMorris Rogers. As I have already done so.

He voted in favor of 2955:

I did vote in support of HB 2955 which passed both the House and Senate unanimously. I'm disappointed it didn't give you better results, that was clearly the intention.

Also:

Keep me posted as the 2009 Legislative Session begins, I'll consider
sponsoring legislation if you need to go that route again.

 

[MD_Willington]

Just thought of something here, The Cathy McMorris Letter I have has a letter from the FBI stating that if WA did what they did with HB 2955 then that would clear the way for the DOL to get back to issuing the AFL's...

So the crux is this, they spelled it out, WA did what they asked and now the FBI drops the ball, so how can we expose this?

Talking about a potential "egg on face" situation here...


MD

 

[ilbob]

how does FL handle this? The department of agriculture issues CC license there.

 

[MD_Willington]

Not sure about FL.

In WA State, DOL issues the firearms license, then my sheriff issues the CC (called a CPL) license... I honestly have no idea why the sheriff does not issue both, then this whole thing would be a non-issue.


Anyway I called Ross Hunters office, had a chat with a nice woman named Marilyn, I explained to her that I had the letter from the FBI, she seemed very interested in the letter, and asked me to email her a copy of if.

I used the word "welched" to describe the FBI dropping the ball in an email I just sent to the DOL, funny thing is, in our conversation, Marilyn used the same term to describe what the FBI was doing.. LOL

She also said, you have already been checked for your immigration admittance & green card so what is their problem.



MD

 

[MD_Willington]

I just called SAF, I chatted with Alan Gottlieb regarding this... stay tuned!

 

[waverace]

meaning of possession

already emailed MD about this but the rest of you should know that just picking up a gun and holding it is classed as possession according to the DOL.
that means that you cant borrow a friends gun at the range or rent one from the range or even look at a gun in the store or at a gun show this handling is classed as possession and would be classed a a class c felony with deportation as a result .

 

[Gray Peterson]

Which is why this law is completely unconstitutional. Even licensing resident aliens and allowing the registration is does not remove it's constitutionality. Chan v. City of Troy and various other cases on it. Oregon also has similar statutes prohibiting those who have not declared themselves to detain themselves and get citizenship. California had similar laws but it was struck down under the 14th amendment (People v. Rappard, 1972).

Strike while iron is hot. Take down this law. This is the state of Washington's fault for allowing AFL's to even exist. Time to go to the state archives and find out WHY this law took effect. They even increased it to a felony in 1994. If I was in your position, I'd be figuring out how to sue the State.

 

[Solo Flyer]

how does FL handle this ?

This way:

http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/weapons/eligible.html

Florida eligibility requirement

Licensing Home
- Concealed Weapons
Eligibility Requirements

You must be 21 years of age or older.
You must be able to demonstrate competency with a firearm.
Unless you are serving overseas in the United States Armed Forces, you must currently reside in the United States (US) AND be a US citizen or deemed a lawful permanent resident alien by Department of Homeland Security, US Citizenship and Immigration Service (USCIS). If you are serving overseas in the US Armed Forces, submit a copy of your deployment documentation with your application. If you are not a US citizen, submit documentation issued by the USCIS proving you are a permanent legal resident alien with proof you have resided in the state of residence (as shown on your application) for at least 90 consecutive days prior to the date the application is submitted.
Proof of residence includes, but is not limited to:

Monthly utility, telephone, power, or cable bills, which show your name and address.
Monthly pay stubs or other documentation from your employer, which show your name and address.
Monthly credit card statements, which show your name and address.
Possible Reasons for Ineligibility:

The physical inability to handle a firearm safely.
A felony conviction (unless civil and firearm rights have been restored by the convicting authority).
Having adjudication withheld or sentence suspended on a felony or misdemeanor crime of violence unless three years have elapsed since probation or other conditions set by the court have been fulfilled.
A conviction for a misdemeanor crime of violence in the last three years.
A conviction for violation of controlled substance laws or multiple arrests for such offenses.
A record of drug or alcohol abuse.
Two or more DUI convictions within the previous three years.
Being committed to a mental institution or adjudged incompetent or mentally defective.
Failing to provide proof of proficiency with a firearm.
Having been issued a domestic violence injunction or an injunction against repeat violence that is currently in force.
Renouncement of U.S. citizenship.
A dishonorable discharge from the armed forces.
Being a fugitive from justice.
Detailed explanations of these various disqualifying conditions

 

[MD_Willington]

waverace who did you talk to?

Any time you call them from now on, get their names! numbers, email addresses etcetera.

At least when I correspond via email I can copy that email to here and it will be stored as proof of contact with the DOL

I emailed Mr Gottlieb and he has the links to these topics here, he is aware of this forum and he will probably check them out.

MD

MD Willington to firearms (WA State DOL)

Bill HB 2955 became effective on June 12, 2008. This bill authorizes the WA DOL direct access to federal criminal backgrounds records. In a nutshell this law certifies the WA DOL as a "Criminal Justice Agency".

So what gives, it appears the FBI is now "welching" on this decision now that the DOL has direct access to records?


Can I not go get a background check done by my County Sheriff and have them send you a certified copy of the background check?


How about a copy of the background check done by ICE or USCIS for my green card.


Thanks

MD

from Tanaka, Bruce (DOL) <[email protected]>
to DOL Firearms <[email protected]>
date Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 1:16 PM
subject RE: Alien Firearms licenses?
mailed-by dol.wa.gov

Dear MD,

DOL is still not considered by the WSP and the FBI as a criminal justice agency. This particular Bill HB2955 was passed but it addressed an investigative unit within DOL to be able use background checks reference to their cases. Unfortunately it did not apply to our needs or yours reference to the Alien Firearms license.

The legislature still has to pass a law either making the DOL a criminal justice agency, or have the local law enforcement be the focal point for backgrounds and issuance of the aliens license. As you may know they already do it for the concealed pistol license.

Please contact your local legislator about this issue. A letter has been sent to all legislators about this so it would be prime time for you to express your concerns.



Bruce W. Tanaka

Firearms Unit Program Manager

Dept. of Licensing

Business and Professions Division

360-664-6622

[email protected]

MD Willington
to Bruce

show details 2:06 PM (10 hours ago) [McMorrisRogers.pdf]


Reply


Bruce, I have contacted my local Reps, in district 9, they have been attempting to fix this, I've also contacted Cathy McMorris Rogers regarding this, and this is the reply she has received from the FBI themselves:

Attached, Letter from Cathy & the FBI


Thanks

MD

BTW Happy 4th... it was more fun last year when I was able to work on my Saiga rifle without fear of being deported!!

 

[waverace]

happy 4th

sorry guys didnt get a name i was not thinking too clearly at the time , i was too depressed and upset over the whole deal but i will certainly pay attention from now on .
happy independance day to all

 

[waverace]

Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness

shooting and collecting firearms is a large part of my LIFE

i would like the LIBERTY to partake in a legal sport in a safe and responsible manner

shooting and collecting firearms is one of the ways in which i pursue HAPPINESS

:banghead:

 

[Solo Flyer]

Why don't you all move to Florida?
Maybe you won't have to worry so much.
And you'll have the same amount of rain to make you miserable.Just in torrents instead of drizzle.
Your current situation seems quite untenable.If it weren't for guns we'd be British.Ironic.
Que sera sera.Happy 4th.

 

[Gray Peterson]

Moving is not always an option, especially if you already own a house in washington.

Ever hear the term "stand and fight"?

 

[Solo Flyer]

Moving is not always an option, especially if you already own a house in washington.

Ever hear the term "stand and fight"?

I'll stand with you, Lonnie!
You're as feisty as you were on PDO!
I was speaking in jest.Doesn't come across well in cyberspace sometimes.
Hold the line,my man!
You'll win out in the end.
Ran out of emoticons.Go get 'um.

 

[MD_Willington]

Actually we did look at houses in Moscow Idaho, our house was listed for sale, but we ended up not selling our house in Washington...

My family & I went to the Fourth of July Parade in Johnson, Washington. My reps, Mark Schoesler, Joe Schmick and Cathy McMorris Rogers were all there participating in the parade, I chatted with them briefly.

Some of those who over heard the matter were appalled that someone who has legally been living here in WA for 8 years, 3 of which with a "green card" and who had been background checked by ICE, USCIS, locally, Federally and internationally (they check NLETS which is tied to RCMP records in Canada) had to put up with the licensing after all that.

I told Mark about contacting Alan Gottlieb and he said that was a good move and that Mark was aware of some other cases, one of which was to do with IIRC a Czech man who was a legal resident in OR that was pulled over in WA, and the WSP found a handgun in his car, he was perfectly legal in OR, of course WA State charged him with being in possession of a firearm and not a WA State AFL - He now faces deportation!


In all a good day, they all said they still had work to do on this issue and hang in there.

 

[Gray Peterson]

We need to find that Czech man and talk to his attorney ASAP.

 

[MD_Willington]

Alan Gottlieb would be the one to contact regarding that. He said to me on Friday he would have someone call me.

It boils down to this... All of you guys on here that are legal immigrants or green card holders, need to call SAF and get a hold of Mr Gottlieb or at least talk to some one at the SAF and tell them you story regarding the AFL debacle...

You may, or probably will, end up being called to court as a plaintiff, so be prepared for this.

MD


SAF Phone: (425) 454-7012

--> Who'd rather be out enjoying Independence day plinking with friends and family, but instead gets to hammer on a keyboard !

 

[Gray Peterson]

Even without the Second Amendment, AFL's are patently unconstitutional under several constitutional principle.

 

[Solo Flyer]

Actually we did look at houses in Moscow Idaho, our house was listed for sale, but we ended up not selling our house in Washington...

Good for you,Mr. Willington.
You'll win this fight.And Lonnie may be a little dour,but he's a bulldog who'll scrap for you til the bitter end!

 

[user3214]

I say: we need to contact the attorney; present all the information we have about how constitutional the AFL is in the 1st place.

I think we should donate; bring the case forward to the media and present it as what it is a lawsuit based on a racist law.


There is probably a good chance the judge will strike down the law.