WA State AFL issue, FBI "fumbling the ball"

[Gray Peterson]

APY:

Call SAF and ask to speak with Alan Gottlieb. You can PM MD_Willington for the number Tell him that you're one of the people effected by the AFL law and that you want to sue to help strike it down.

The more who are PERSONALLY effected by this law, the better. I personally can't sue, I'm a US Citizen, but you damn right I think this law is unconstitutional and needs to be fought.

-Lonnie

 

[PavePusher]

MD Willington wrote:

"LOL - That's a tad awkward for pocket carry."

Ha, not at all. I fit quite nicely into the "pocket" of an M1-A or a Challanger MBT... The problem is finding a good extended magazine for them...

 

[MD_Willington]

Same number as in post #22 above...

CALL SAF ASAP Phone: (425) 454-7012

I'm a SAF member and I haven't heard back from Mr Gottlieb either.

Lonnie call the number and see if you can get a hold of them for the name of the Czech guy if you have not received it from Mark Schoesler or his office. He may not know the exact details.


RE: Reps not helping... If your Rep is not helping, remind them it is an election year, and you'd like to stay in WA State instead of moving to a more friendly State.

Get your friends (who are born US citizens) to contact the your Reps and SAF as well...

Most reps will bend over backwards during an election year... that may sound like a dirty trick but it is the nature of the beast.


At this point I think it is all about LEVERAGE

 

[Gray Peterson]

Intersting federal court case

Say v. Kentucky State Police

 

[waverace]

Nice one Lonnie

That seems pretty close to our situation .

Wish they would write these things in English though , legalese makes it so difficult to read.

but looks like a definate violation of the 14th and if other violations of the constitution have been upheld (1st and 4th) then I see no reason why the 2nd shouldnt be upheld too

 

[MD_Willington]

Uh, cuz, guns are bad, mmmm-kay... {/ LOL

 

[waverace]

Disobedient guns need discipline training

MD you need to train yours better!!!! mine have been left alone for some time now and they have behaved themselves perfectly ,more than I can say for my kids

 

[user3214]

How would we go about filing a lawsuit – could we start it off without a lawyer. Here are some forms, I can’t find one that would work for us though: http://www.courts.wa.gov/forms/?fa=forms.static&staticID=14

BTW Any info on the pending case with the Czech guy?

 

[waverace]

I would think that to be even entertained by the court we would need a lawyer that has experience in both gun law and at least a good understanding of immigration policies and law

 

[user3214]

Also I am thinking about filing a compaint here: http://www.cityofseattle.net/civilrights/howtoocr.htm

 

[user3214]

I would think that to be even entertained by the court we would need a lawyer that has experience in both gun law and at least a good understanding of immigration policies and law

Presenting the cases (attached in the forum) should be pretty powerful evidence.
We won't need someone to make prove something from scratch.

 

[waverace]

looks like that might be for seattle district only also looks like it might be for use against individuals (employers , landlords etc) rather than the local govt.
Might not hurt to talk to them though if you live in the district .

 

[waverace]

problem with using the forum would be if the mods would allow it and there is a lot of chit chat here that would cloud the issue , we need clear concise cases to use as examples or else we would get laughed out of court and would lose any chance we might have , please dont do anything rash

 

[user3214]

You are right the above link has city jurisdiction only, here is one for state level
http://www.hum.wa.gov/complaintProcess/index.htm

 

[waverace]

still deals with personal discrimination rather than mass discrimination due to govt incompetance but keep looking you might be on to something that we could use as an example of other things that are not allowed to be discriminatory (ie your not allowed to do this so how come you can do this !)
Let MD WILLINGTON and LONNIE WILSON check this out before you actually do anything as they are better informed on this than I am .
Dont wanna put ya down but we need to get this right , imagine if Heller had failed could have messed up a lot of good work . Glad to have you on board

 

[batman]

I am telling you guys, the DOJ is the way to go on this.

 

[waverace]

You might be right

heres the relevent sections as described by wikipedia.

The U.S. Department of Justice Civil Rights Division is the institution within the federal government responsible for enforcing federal statutes prohibiting discrimination on the basis of race, sex, disability, religion, and national origin. The Division was established on December 9, 1957, by order of Attorney General William P. Rogers, after the Civil Rights Act of 1957 created the office of Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights, who has since then headed the division. The current Acting Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights is Grace Chung Becker who succeeded Wan J. Kim.

Section 102 of the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986 (IRCA), as amended, which prohibits discrimination on the basis of national origin and citizenship status as well as document abuse and retaliation under the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952.

In addition, the Division prosecutes actions under several criminal civil rights statutes which were designed to preserve personal liberties and safety.

Deprivation of Rights Under Color of Law, 18 U.S.C. § 242. This provision makes it a crime for a person acting under color of any law to willfully deprive a person of a right or privilege protected by the Constitution or laws of the United States.

For the purpose of Section 242, acts under "color of law" include acts not only done by federal, state, or local officials within the their lawful authority, but also acts done beyond the bounds of that official's lawful authority, if the acts are done while the official is purporting to or pretending to act in the performance of his/her official duties. Persons acting under color of law within the meaning of this statute include police officers, prisons guards and other law enforcement officials, as well as judges, care providers in public health facilities, and others who are acting as public officials. It is not necessary that the crime be motivated by animus toward the race, color, religion, sex, handicap, familial status or national origin of the victim.

The offense is punishable by a range of imprisonment up to a life term, or the death penalty, depending upon the circumstances of the crime, and the resulting injury, if any.



http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/

ok so whos good at writing letters ?

 

[waverace]

Pitfall ?

Ok this might be where the state is coming from , under the patriot act , discrimination of immigrants is allowed on certain things if it is deemed in the interests of national security .
I have been searching all morning and have not found anything specific except that in the virginia tech killings the perp was a legal resident with a legaly held gun , the fact that he was mentaly disturbed and shouldnt have got one in the first place doesnt come up much but the fact that the patriot act would solve this (problem ?) was mentioned in a few blogs that I read .
The patriot act itself is a huge beast of a thing and difficult to find anything specific within its pages but as another example , residents are having trouble getting hazmat licences for trucking due to the patriot act .
Just a thought but if this is their angle then we might be up the manure creek without a paddle :banghead:

 

[MD_Willington]

You guys, feel very free to run with this..

To be honest, I'm very bust ATM with work and family. I don't feel like giving up on this, but for the time being it is on the back burner for me.

Seriously, there's a bunch of issues going on here that make me feel like I'm some kind of second class person.



Plus the more people that make waves regarding this, the better!

 

[waverace]

Thats fine MD home and family come first , just keep in touch and get back to us when you can buddy

 

[waverace]

a lot of potential support

I posted this on another thread here about "taking an immigrant shooting "
and thought I'd put it here too.

While I was doing some research to help our cause here in WA I found out that in 2006 (the latest figures I can find so far ) there were 250,000 LEGAL permanent residents here in WA alone , now not all of them would be interested in shooting but if just 1 in 10 had some interest , that would be 25,000 people in one state alone that were on the side of shooters rights .
This was in 2006 , so there are probably more than that now .
Food for thought .

If we can get a hold of any figures for how many AFL were applied for it would give some weight as to how many people are being discriminated against here , I'm gonna call the DOL tomorrow and see if anyone will tell me some numbers , the girl I spoke to last time said she hoped that we would get this sorted out , and she wished me luck so it would seem that to a certain extent the staff at the DOL are on our side .

 

[MD_Willington]

The DOL are a funny lot, one of them there said to keep my firearms at a friends house and only use them over at my friends house, he has a farm... Weird stuff, considering WA States whole idea of "possession".

 

[waverace]

14th ammendment is where we can win this

Section 1 of the Fourteenth Amendment reads in pertinent part: “No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive ANY person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.”

This is upheld through the case Hunter v. Underwood, 471 U.S. 222 (1985).
although this case invoves the right to vote it can be used to uphold the 2A as well .

Quote from another website dealing with ccw.

In 1985, the US Supreme Court in Hunter vs. Underwood ruled that a state law that was drafted for racist purposes and was having an accidental effect on racial parity should be thrown completely off the books.
Because voting rights have already been declared "fundamental", it could easily be assumed that the civil right in question in Hunter was already "enshrined to a higher degree" by the courts than a gun-rights issue is.
Not so!
It turns out that the courts had already decided the issue of "strict scrutiny" of laws that disenfranchised convicted criminals, and found that the 14th Amendment allows removal of civil rights only with "due process of law" - and only criminal trials qualify as due process.

So unless a person is convicted in a court and found to be unsuitable to own a firearm (ie a felony) the state has no right to racially discriminate against their rights.

 

[batman]

Look folks, the FBI has the approval to release the informtion to the DOL, but is dragging their feet. This is a case of clear cut discrimination IMO. When you're discriminated against by the man, who you gonna call? D-O-J

 

[waverace]

Batman this is one avenue that we will follow but the whole licencing issue is unconstitutional , so if possible we want to get that wiped off the books altogether .